Opinions on a "Vote: Timer Reset" for DF parties on the cusp of a clear?

[Jamein]

Three issues:
1. If you have been going for the full duration, you will pretty much be entering the 'I might need to repair soon zone'
2. It will increase DF times as people might just continue extending the timer, rather than being kicked out and being forced to reque with others who have been waiting for a group.
3. The vote would have to be based on all 8 people saying they want to stay, because if one person wants to leave but the vote passes because the majority wants to stay, that person has to then leave and take a penalty.

It's not a bad idea however I would argue that you already have this feature and if you want to stick with the same group, that's what PF is for. DF is your random PUG groups for those who don't want to go through the PF system for whatever reason.

[Saviorlito]

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3. The vote would have to be based on all 8 people saying they want to stay, because if one person wants to leave but the vote passes because the majority wants to stay, that person has to then leave and take a penalty.

From the original post. "If the vote passes, let's say 5 to 3, the 3 who do not want to continue have the option to leave without penalty and the timer is reset." Issue one is solved by those who have broken gear voting no to continue. Issue 2 is solved by only allowing a fixed percentage of the total initial time (let's say, 20%, so If an instance is 100 minutes long, it's extended by 20 minutes and cannot be extended again.)

[Jamein]

From the original post. "If the vote passes, let's say 5 to 3, the 3 who do not want to continue have the option to leave without penalty and the timer is reset." Issue one is solved by those who have broken gear voting no to continue. Issue 2 is solved by only allowing a fixed percentage of the total initial time (let's say, 20%, so If an instance is 100 minutes long, it's extended by 20 minutes and cannot be extended again.)

So then what exactly is the point of this? You're essentially breaking the group up anyway as you've now got to get new people in to fill up the spots, what if those new people have never even set foot in the fight before, do you then go and vote abandon because the people who did stay wanted to carry on and push for the clear but with the new people it becomes unlikely? Therefore wasting their que time? What about those people just joining? What if they just waited an hour in the que to then be thrown in 20 minutes before the timer runs out? You do two attempts see it won't happen and hit vote abandon which is what usually happens in DF groups.

Like I said, I see your point, I just also do not see any real use for this, it causes more problems and issues than it solves. There is a perfectly good PF system. Now if you want something changing I would say ask them to implement cross server PF's for the data centers, instead of your idea, but that's a whole new thing.

[Saviorlito]

You do two attempts see it won't happen and hit vote abandon which is what usually happens in DF groups.

The only difference is you now have 5 people from the previous party who have been further into the fight than they originally started. There could be an option to join in progress and join extended, which left unchecked would ensure that you don't join an extended trial. It wouldn't be any different than choosing to join in progress and getting into a group that has 20 minutes left on the initial timer. Actually, there would be a difference. The people remaining in the group have knowledge of the fight and are willing to carry on. The same exact thing they would have to do if someone left with 20 minutes on the initial timer and new people joined. Literally nothing changes other than having the benefit of 5 people in the instance who know the fight well enough to carry on. The option to choose to join extended could have a pop up once checked, explaining that this is for people who are at least familiar with the fight etc etc. This would also raise the skill level of the extended trials by replacing members who do not wish to continue any further with members who are somewhat versed in the fight and are going for a clear.

EDIT: The PF system is not perfect on low population servers.

[Jamein]

The only difference is you now have 5 people from the previous party who have been further into the fight than they originally started. There could be an option to join in progress and join extended, which left unchecked would ensure that you don't join an extended trial.

Again, you are adding more options, which is going to create longer ques than we already have.

The option to choose to join extended could have a pop up once checked, explaining that this is for people who are at least familiar with the fight etc etc. This would also raise the skill level of the extended trials by replacing members who do not wish to continue any further with members who are somewhat versed in the fight and are going for a clear.

Oh man, now you are just asking for problems. We already have a seriously bad DF culture where people get chewed and spit out, and then there are those who want the carry. I 100% guarentee you, that if you put an option like this in then you're going to get those groups filling up with people who have absolutely no idea what they are doing but will rely on the others to get them through it, and then you will have those who scream at them for joining a party not knowing what to do. Once again I am sorry I like your idea in theory, but in practice it will just create longer que times, screw up mis-matched ques, and cause havoc.

EDIT: The PF system is not perfect on low population servers.

Hence why I said in my above post, they could change the PF system to implement a cross server PF, which in my opinion would be a better solution to your problem, you could leave the instance but take down the names of the people you just played with who were good, and invite them into your PF if it was cross server.

[LineageRazor]

The primary purpose of the timers is to prevent system resources from being tied up unused for whatever reason. Even discounting trolls who might lay claim to a dungeon on purpose just to screw people over, there's other occasions where an instance with no timer might get tied up. For instance, if a group or individual goes afk in Brayflox and doesn't get booted, that individual could, theoretically, keep that instance running for hours just by sitting there doing nothing. There's a limit to the number of instances that can be running at once, and a timer ensures that those instances will be cleaned up and recycled in a timely fashion. A timer is a good and necessary thing.

That said, the ability to extend the timer with a vote doesn't sound like a bad one; I doubt there'd be many cases where a group would have the patience to troll-claim a dungeon when they have to re-vote every half hour just to keep it going. On the other hand there might be a lot of folks who feel like they have a good cross-server group going, and want to keep practicing a while longer.

To prevent folks from being held "hostage" in an instance they no longer want to continue in, though, the "early withdrawl" penalty should be removed after the first extend. If you've spent the full original duration in the instance, you've done your part and should be free to go unhindered.

[Saviorlito]

snip'd for space

I disagree that it would create longer Qs or have any negative impact on the instance servers. I also disagree that it would be equal to or worse than the current situation. I feel it would be better. Thank you for your input, though.

[Saviorlito]

when they have to re-vote every half hour

To prevent folks from being held "hostage" in an instance they no longer want to continue in, though, the "early withdrawl" penalty should be removed after the first extend. If you've spent the full original duration in the instance, you've done your part and should be free to go unhindered.

There should be a one-time limit on the extension per instance (not person) to prevent trolling. I agree with your second point.

[Mandze]

I feel like a more useful solution to this would be to somehow allow pre-formed parties across servers within the same datacenter for instanced content. If people found themselves with DF pugs and wanted to continue working with them, they could then do so.

Edit: Aaaaand I just realized someone above me said that same thing. Sorry. lol.

[KayoZ]

Personally I think the whole timer thing is idiotic. Is it me or is SE the only MMO out there right now having all these restrictions in place because of server "space" issues. Did they recycle the old FFXI servers or something?

"Sorry, we need timers to keep the line moving for server space"
"Sorry, we cant add more housing because of server space"
"Sorry, that dungeon is very popular right now, you have to wait ... server space"
"Sorry, we cant just open up more inventory space, unless you pay, because server space"

Seriously? Yet somehow we still get all the common server problems during times of high traffic. What exactly is the point then? Why is FFXIV the one MMO ive played in the last decade with all these restrictions yet improves nothing compared to other games?

/sigh .... anyway that said, the timers arent too bad. I would personally just prefer respawns like other MMOs do after such time passes but honestly, most teams quit when that happens anyway. If anything raids like coil should definitely have longer timers but thats it. There is such a thing as "losing" in video games... you shouldnt just be able to respawn and keep trying forever.