Tanks thrown out of farms for low DPS?

[FoxyAreku]

I honestly don't see a reason to kick someone over it if the fight is getting cleared either way.

And if the group isn't meeting a DPS requirement, I'd be quicker to replace DPS than I would tanks....or maybe the scholar if they had zero dps. (But I'm just elitist towards other scholars...)

Maybe I'm crazy.

[PArcher]

o_o ...

It is me or now people are trying to ask others to not DPS as a tank, as it's not it's "role" and viceversa? You can do whatever you want. Do you guys are concerned if people start asking for that? If that's so, why are you concerned? Are you guys mad that other tanks don't care about their DPS output? These are not rhetorical questions, btw.

No, you've misunderstood the topic.

People are fine with tanks and healers pushing DPS. People encourage it, as long as the tanks and heals are comfortable with it and it doesn't endanger the run

People are not fine with others forcing the tanks and heals to do more than they are comfortable with, especially to compensate for bad players in the party

[nuyu11]

Nice alt you have there, shame I can't check the little thing's gear or achievements...

Nope.. That's my main..

<= New and inexperienced player, and you can make a comparison if that's make you feel awesome.

I'm just a normal player who jumping around looking for a nice advice, guide or suggestion. But what I see here nothing more than a empty talk.

[Ashkendor]

Now, that's certainly not to say the tank should sacrifice themselves for the sake of the DPS, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen a PLD simply ignore an injured DPS right beside them and let them die. It's like once you reach end game content, PLD players completely forget they even have cover. I have saved actually quite a few players, DPS, tanks, and healers alike, when using this.

A word of advice: don't pop cover willy-nilly in T13. You will want it for very specific things. Other turns, yeah it doesn't matter much though honestly it doesn't work on a good portion of the damage that goes out in FCoB (magic damage). I'm sorry, but DPS really need to be concerned with dodging mechanics. I can't personally babysit them all day while I'm doing Tank Stuff™ (especially given the long CD on cover). DPS are there to stay alive and push damage. If they can't do the former, then they're going to have a really bad time trying to do the latter with any degree of regularity. There's also the fact that there's an expected amount of damage going out on the main tank. If I cover a DPS, some unlucky crits or a lack of block procs can easily spell death for me despite the healers' best efforts.

Before you get started on what an awful tank I must be, I've had T13 on farm for awhile now. I tank in my pentamelded i110's because I find them to be a happy medium between pushing DPS and maintaining my role. This especially applies when I'm going into parties with healers that I don't know. Even if it's a farm, the fact remains that I know absolutely nothing about the comfort level of the healers. Have they cleared it once? Did they buy that one clear? Do they have it on farm? Who knows, until you go in and check it out? It applies doubly to the learning/clear parties that I often find myself in. I love helping people out. Going into a learning party in full slaying accessories, tanking in sword oath, and watching the healers freak out trying to keep me standing isn't helping.

There's also the fact that I can't always pick my tank partner in a farm. Even in the case that I do, not all of my friends have tanks as geared as mine is. That doesn't mean I'm going to tell them they can't tank. That just means I can't always tear in with the DPS or I rip hate off at inopportune times. If it's a pug, I'm not going to kick a tank for doing bad DPS. Hell, if I rip hate off a pug tank in full VIT accessories, that's on my head and I apologize profusely when it happens. The only time I'd kick a tank is if they aren't doing the tank things - holding hate, positioning the boss, picking up adds, using defensive cooldowns. If we get a tank that does good DPS, awesome. We add him to the friend list and the linkshell and we have another person that we know is solid to run with. If we don't, then the DPS get to do their thing and we roll with it. I'm OK if we don't push 3 bennu in a farm party. It's freaking amazing when we do, but honestly as long as we're doing what we set out to do (i.e. clearing the turn) I'm good.

Just for grins, your Lodestone is interesting...you sure talk a lot for someone who hasn't cleared FCoB yet and has a very Augmented Paladin showing. I do wonder just how much you really PUG (or even run) endgame content.

[Eidolon]

a bit unfair since war has 10% debuff , what about i130 pld sword oath with 10% debuff around 400~ ?

Well the intent wasn't showing which was a better DPS. I didn't use food, pots, and didn't bother using CD's and used a warrior rotation that focus on DPS rather than mitigation. The idea was to show the gaps between VIT and STR.

Like I said, my old is using a weaker level sword too.

[Eidolon]

While I appreciate your reply I think you misread my post lol

I don't know healer DPS so I offered this in the hopes am i130 healer would give us some numbers :x

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Healers have accuracy on their gear.
Tanks have Sword Oaths and Inner Beast.

SE is clearly telling that both tanks and healers are SUPPOSED to deal damage in order to meet the enrage timers and dps checks.

This was not necessary at the start of the game - but then SE realized that players were pushing phases because they exploited their dps, so from that moment onward endgame content kinda requires healer and tank dps in order to be cleared in a timely fashion.

I do not like it myself, but I fear there is not much arguing. Of course with the echo this is moot unless you are 7-manning things, but on progression it is essential.

[ChaozK]

And if the group isn't meeting a DPS requirement, I'd be quicker to replace DPS than I would tanks....or maybe the scholar if they had zero dps. (But I'm just elitist towards other scholars...)

Hmm i think kicking a healer for low dps is much more of a grey area than with tanks imo. Healers need to stop doing their main task while tanks are in some form designed to dps. Tanks are constantly hitting things, a lot of the stats on their gear ONLY contributes to their dps (like crit) and they start losing hate when their dps is too low. It is clearly intended that tanks should try to keep their dps high. An OT in particular is pretty much just a tankier dps throughout the majority of a fight.

Now the numbers that some people post or suggested in this thread are kinda ridiculous imo. No one expects some crazy full str geared tank without tank stance and push 400+ dps but from what the op sounds like, the tank was kicked specifically for having very bad dps, meaning much lower than an average tank, not that he wasnt trying to go above and beyond of what a tanks dps was supposed to be. In that case i think it was kinda ok. Of course no specific numbers were given, so we dont know.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Hmm i think kicking a healer for low dps is much more of a grey area than with tanks imo.

I also think that the CNJ questline where the little girl only wants to heal instead of also casting Aero and Stone is quite a strong message from SE.

[Jim_Berry]

Generally for farm groups people want everyone playing their roll to a certain level for efficiency, and doing dps as a tank is part of playing your role well.

This is bs...

If it's a solo tank farm, the purpose of also having one healer is to bring 6... SIX... DPS. If kills are slow, then it's definitely not the tank's fault.

A tank playing his role well states that s/he hold boss and sometimes adds. If you complain about playing roles well, take it up with the DPS who are killing slow AND dying to mechanics.