Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[TetsuyaHikari]

Yep! As I've said before though, title editing is not possible. I also did not have the benefit of hindsight at the time.

And I possibly expected too much that people would value the content of my posts over the cover of the book. First impressions are important of course though, and I'd edit the title if I could.

Oh, don't worry. I read the book. I just didn't think it was a best seller, that's all.

While you have good intentions (as shown in your opening statement), you don't exactly convey that well through your choice of words. A lot of the remarks you made really sounded more like backhanded comments to entitled players which would be all well and good, if you, yourself, didn't make it look like you were one too, given your pretentious and/or holier than thou attitude.

tl;dr: OP thinks they are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong, even though opinions aren't supposed to be right or wrong.

[Adire]

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I don't think that me thinking that tanks should make the call during a tie without compromise and acknowledging that they should be servants of the majority is holier than thou or pretentious, but okay. I don't think that defending myself against people who are wrongly making me out to be an awful person or misunderstanding me makes me either of those either, but okay. All I'm stressing is that DPS (and healers) should leave the tanking decisions up to the tank if no consensus can be found.

If people want to believe healers and DPS have as much right to break the tie by pulling and refusing to heal instead of tanks having the right to do their intended job, that's fine. I am not of that camp personally, and do not understand it, but each to their own. We'll see how the community becomes if this opinion is adopted by the majority.

I'd also like to see what special privileges I'm asking for to make me entitled. Asking that everyone do their jobs if we can't make a decision, yet being willing to compromise and do as asked if asked with respect does not make me entitled I think...

I've grown tired of responding to overly hostile and assumptive judgments about my character, so I'll just stop with what I said there. Sucks that this civility didn't last long before it descended back into blind character judgments.

[TetsuyaHikari]

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I don't think you seem to grasp the entire situation, but okay. You say you're not entitled and constantly call out other people for being entitled while showing repeated signs of being a hypocrite, but okay.

One thing we both can agree on though is I've grown tired of responding and I'll just stop with what I said there.

[Adire]

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Mocking what I say now, eh? That's really unbecoming of someone calling others out on supposedly being "pretentious".

I also haven't called out anyone particular on this thread for being entitled and have said repeatedly that if I am a DPS or healer, I still give the tank the final say on things and ask nicely if I want them to do something. And I've responded fairly to people who disagree with me if it's clear they've read and understood what happened in the situation. And I've admitted that if given the chance, I'd go back and handle the situation a little differently despite not being the aggressor and being the only one to attempt compromise. I guess being a decent person means you're entitled nowadays, huh

Oh well, hope you have a nice day

[EinherjarLucian]

OP: Sorry you've had such a hard time with runs with aggressive DPS. I main heal myself, so I've seen the abuse. However, on the flipside, when I go in as a DD, I at least try to ask politely if we can do a full clear. It doesn't hurt to ask. Think of it this way, though: a DPSer has just had to wait 30+ minutes to even get a chance to enter a dungeon. So literally, every ounce of extra XP they can squeeze out of the dungeon offsets the hellacious wait they've had to face. I'm not saying you weren't taking that into consideration, just please do keep that in mind. I was in two dungeon runs today where the tank completely ignored my (polite) requests to do full clears. I didn't push the issue, but it was incredibly frustrating, as we easily left 40,000 or more XP on the table, which I had to go grind on my own on hunting logs just to level up, because I damn well wasn't going to wait another half hour to queue up. It happens, just... ugh.

I've played every role and have leveled every job in the game to 50 except DRG and MNK (those are next!), so I totally understand both your frustration and theirs. Nobody likes pushy people in general. But you're right... people being jerks is the number one reason why tanks (and healers!) are so rare.

Anyways, hope you have greater success and fewer encounters with jerks. Good hunting!

[Adire]

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Thank you for posting this . I think we're a lot alike here. I main NIN and have 3, soon to be 4 DPS classes leveled to 50. I understand the frustration DPS have with the long queues and slow experience. If I want a clear, I always ask nicely, like you. This DPS was an exception though of course, he queued with his healer friend so therefore had a healer queue rather than a DPS queue.

If you had the run you mentioned with me as the tank, I would have given you the clear, because you asked rather than demanded. Politeness is such a rarity these days unfortunately...and to see so many people dogpile me for having a small bad reaction to being mistreated is quite disappointing, especially given that I did all I could to salvage things. So thank you for being understanding and non-biased. Like you, I understand the plight that DPS have all too well. Also like you, I do not treat tanks like crap because I feel bad for myself, so thank you for that too.

And I wish you the best of luck in your future runs as well

[Sapphic]

Personally I would have let him eat the mobs he pulled. Then probably left.

No-one has the right to demand that someone cater to their sole wants. Then trying to blackmail someone into getting their own way is pathetic. Two wrongs don't make a right, but neither does giving in to someone trying to bully you into doing what they want you to do isn't either.

Personally when I was levelling DPS jobs in DF, if the tank asked for clear whatever, I would respond that it is their choice, I'll go along with it. And as tank I'll ask if they want to get xp or just get through. But as soon as someone starts demanding something, their opinion becomes void. And I'll pull how the rest to, if they don't like it, they can leave. If they start blatently sabotaging the run, they get reported and kicked. If you don't stand up to them and show their actions have reactions they will not learn and continue to do the same.

Rare times I've had to kick someone, I've warned them in chat of their actions that is causing the kick. I don't just kick (unless someone is AFK for an age or DCd for a long time). I want them to know exactly why so they can adjust the next time.

There is a shortage of tanks in DF, we all know that, then demanding and blackmailing them into making them do what you want dissuades new tanks from continuing thus escalating the shortage problem.

Luckily enough it's been very rare, kinda countable on one hand from 100s of runs in DF that i've had to deal with entitled brats.

OP, you had a lot more tolerance than I would have had.

[RyuDragnier]

Which dungeon was this in? Depending on the dungeon, a full clear may or may not have been easily doable, and your answer to that will determine my answer to this thread.

[Adire]

Which dungeon was this in? Depending on the dungeon, a full clear may or may not have been easily doable, and your answer to that will determine my answer to this thread.

Dzemael Darkhold.

[MicahZerrshia]

There is a shortage of tanks in DF, we all know that, then demanding and blackmailing them into making them do what you want dissuades new tanks from continuing thus escalating the shortage problem.

Honestly I usually have this problem with tank. They think since they are the tank they control the run. If they want a full clear they are going to get one and if they don't they wont do it. Because they feel as the tank they control the pace and clear rate of the dungeon, the opinions of the other 3 ppl be damned. And there is little you can do about it since if you kick the tank you may never get a new one, so in the end the tank gets what the tank wants which just feeds the tank entitlement issues. I'm actually surprised we don't see more tanks just due to how easy they have it with queues and issues like this. I seldom, if ever see it from dps and only on occasion from a healer.

At the same time, dps shouldn't pull just because he wants more, I will let the pt get eatin, reset and boot that dps if they are like that. It should be a consensus.