The constant disbanding of Steps of Faith

[tocsin]

edited: first off, the person who gave the definition earlier, gave the right definition, but for the wrong term. you looked up "one shot", not "one shot mechanic". none of vishaps moves are a one shot mechanic. they may cause a one shot kill if you do not have the health to survive it, but if it CAN be survived, it is , by definition, NOT a 1 shot mechanic.

second, if you are hitting the adds, you are doing the trial wrong. no adds should be being damaged in this run. They despawn for a reason. if you are, you are just making the entire trial harder on yourself and your party. Get better.

Remember, the adds are there to distract you. they aren't part of the actual trial.

[Nalien]

second, if you are hitting the adds, you are doing the trial wrong. no adds should be being damaged in this run.

I must have beaten it wrong then. When I beat it I had two DPS on cannons (myself and another), two DPS killing adds, both tanks picking a side and grabbing all the adds, most importantly the ones which go directly to cannons (can those really be ignored?), and pulling them into cannon range. Even sent on of the DPS not on cannons up to do Dragon Killer. Almost all the adds were dead before the last cannons before a barrier were down and they were certainly all dead before Vishap started attacking the barrier. Everyone then focused DPS on Vishap.

Perhaps not the fastest way to do it, but it was an incredibly clean run with zero problems.

[kyuven]

Perhaps not the fastest way to do it, but it was an incredibly clean run with zero problems.

I do it the same way, except i only use one tank (me, because I trust me and only seem to get SoF when I'm queueing as a tank) assign the other tank to the cannons, and play Little Bo Peep with my scaly sheep under the boss.
I rarely have to worry about adds getting away from me so long as one healer (usually the WHM) is under vishap as well.
I also usually assign the newest guy (there's always a newest guy) to cannons.
It works pretty well as long as someone gets the dragonkiller.

[Nalien]

It works pretty well as long as someone gets the dragonkiller.

Yeah, the only problem I've ever seen in SoF is misfiring the Dragon Killer, which was something I promptly solved by barking orders at people. Still get cases when whoever was meant to be firing it decide not to even be in a position to fire it and I find myself hitting a Snare and having to run up to do it myself (which is impossible to do in time afaik), or I decide to do Dragon Killer and get to watch as the guys on cannons ignore me shouting at them to use Snare.

I'm sure there are multiple strategies for beating SoF, the issue people have is that people either don't follow the strategy, or just out right don't outline it to begin with.

Yes, the ones heading for the cannons can be ignored. their combined dps cannot kill a cannon alone, before the time that vishap will kill them anyways, in which case you should already be off the cannons.

I don't know. I'll assume they despawn with each barrier, but ignoring them still leaves you with two mobs on the second set of cannons. When I've seen cannons die it's always been the second set with a Wyvern and Biast (or something like that) on it.

Then there is the fact that if nobody is herding adds, they're roaming freely and targeting the NPCs (while I doubt they add a lot of DPS, seeing over a dozen on them wailing on Vishap was a glorious thing to behold), which makes it far more likely that they'll get hit by the odd cannon fire and end up going after cannons, or just things like the Dragon/Turtle will end up firing the odd AoE towards a cannon. Ignoring them seems far too risky, for the Duty Finder anyway.

[tocsin]

snip.

*sigh*.... let me direct everyone to the alternate strategy again.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rnate-Strategy

Essentially, the large adds (turtle, dragon, and transcendant if possible), are tanked all the way at the spawn point, as far away from vishap as possible, by the two tanks and one healer. there should be one dps, and the other healer on the cannons. the other dps do NO AOE OR PARTY BUFFS, and generate no agro on the adds, while focusing on the boss from a safe distance. when the adds spawn, they will go after npc's, and then mill around without an active target, or go after the healer all the way at the entrance, because the dps are too far away to draw agro, and then despawn. when DK time happens, the dps on cannon hits snare, then sprints and hits other snare, while the healer on cannons sprints up the tower and gets DK.

Its the strategy that requires the least amount of communication, which is the weakest link in the DF.

edit: lol, just go read the OP I linked. looking over my explanation, and then looking at his, his is a lot more in-depth, and will make a lot more sense.

[Nalien]

Its the strategy that requires the least amount of communication, which is the weakest link in the DF.

Well, it requires "do NO AOE OR PARTY BUFFS", which after many a sac pull in many a dungeon, is not something I'm confident the Duty Finder can pull off.

I don't really see how it requires less communication, either. Things like cannons and Dragon Killer/Snare are essentially the same, but you have to communicate to avoid the adds while still having the tanks deal with some of them. That seems like more to explain to me.

The only real benefit seems to be that you can completely ignore the big adds. Both strategies let you ignore the little ones, since they die so easily to cannon fire if herded anyway. As long as people are actually dealing with the big ones they go down easily enough to cannon fire and a little bit of DPS focus. That results in you having a horde of NPCs on Vishap and three party members not otherwise busy, overall that seems like a significant gain in DPS to me.

when DK time happens, the dps on cannon hits snare, then sprints and hits other snare, while the healer on cannons sprints up the tower and gets DK.

Is there a particular reason for doing it this way? Having both players on cannons hit their respective Snares while one of the free players hits Dragon Killer means you get a fair amount of extra cannon fires in while he is immobile. Fairly sure the cannons offer more damage than a DPS is capable of so keeping a DPS down to melee him while one cannon goes unused seems like a mistake to me.

[tocsin]

its generally less communication, in that the adds simply aren't there, anywhere near the boss. they spawn, and if the healer and tanks do their job, they just run right for the entrance to the dungeon. no worries of cannons to use stuns and slows, no worries of dps to stay out of all the aoes, its all just pew pew pew for the 4 dps and healer, and the kite team just runs in circles while being chased by a large pile of mobs, and avoids everything.

Is there a particular reason for doing it this way? Having both players on cannons hit their respective Snares while one of the free players hits Dragon Killer means you get a fair amount of extra cannon fires in while he is immobile. Fairly sure the cannons offer more damage than a DPS is capable of so keeping a DPS down to melee him while one cannon goes unused seems like a mistake to me.

its mainly to avoid having the other dps interrupt their rotations. less communication of a third person, and by the point of the snares, the people on the cannons should be getting out of the way anyways, for the aoe.

the strategy utilizes the two main mechanics of the fight:
1. All the adds share threat tables, regardless of location in the map
2. adds despawn after barriers.

[tocsin]

I must have beaten it wrong then. When I beat it I had two DPS on cannons (myself and another), two DPS killing adds, both tanks picking a side and grabbing all the adds, most importantly the ones which go directly to cannons (can those really be ignored?), and pulling them into cannon range. Even sent on of the DPS not on cannons up to do Dragon Killer. Almost all the adds were dead before the last cannons before a barrier were down and they were certainly all dead before Vishap started attacking the barrier. Everyone then focused DPS on Vishap.

Perhaps not the fastest way to do it, but it was an incredibly clean run with zero problems.

Not saying it cant be completed through other means, by any way shape or form. we have much higher ilvl than i90 right now, there should be other methods. What im saying is that the cleanest way to do it, if everyone is exactly i90 (and getting one-shot by the damage mechanics), is by ignoring the adds. if the DPS don't aoe agro, the adds will attack the little npc friends until they despawn.

Yes, the ones heading for the cannons can be ignored. their combined dps cannot kill a cannon alone, before the time that vishap will kill them anyways, in which case you should already be off the cannons.

[kyuven]

Not saying it cant be completed through other means, by any way shape or form. we have much higher ilvl than i90 right now, there should be other methods. What im saying is that the cleanest way to do it, if everyone is exactly i90 (and getting one-shot by the damage mechanics), is by ignoring the adds.

Ideally you don't "ignore the adds" so much as focus the boss. The tank needs to NOT be ignoring the adds, otherwise they kill everyone.
And if you ignore the damn turtle, everyone dies. Because he cheats.

[RyuDragnier]

I must have beaten it wrong then. When I beat it I had two DPS on cannons (myself and another), two DPS killing adds, both tanks picking a side and grabbing all the adds, most importantly the ones which go directly to cannons (can those really be ignored?), and pulling them into cannon range. Even sent on of the DPS not on cannons up to do Dragon Killer. Almost all the adds were dead before the last cannons before a barrier were down and they were certainly all dead before Vishap started attacking the barrier. Everyone then focused DPS on Vishap.

Perhaps not the fastest way to do it, but it was an incredibly clean run with zero problems.

This is actually the method I've seen every clear I've gotten of the place use. It works well, INCREDIBLY well. The runs I've done it it's been me (MNK) and a BLM taking care of the adds along with the cannons, and everything just burns down so fast that we can concentrate on Vishap more. I don't know why it can't be like that for everybody.