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  1. #11
    Player
    Welsper59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,427
    Character
    Eros Maxima
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Magusrex View Post
    I don't really understand the hatred against meters. They are just tools. I never saw much bullying over them. I did see some people get embarrassed because their abysmal performance was made public. No one cares if you are not at the top or even if you are at the bottom for that matter, but people deserve to know if you performing at less than half capacity of what an average person of you gear level suggests. FYI I have seen people who do 1/10 of what an average person does. I was in a WoD run where it took us 14 minutes to kill the first boss. I was determined to win because the people left said I couldn't get it done. I took it as challenge, I gave detailed descriptions, I marked people and locations. I encouraged, kept telling them we could do it, we got better, By Cerberus we had a good team. We didn't finish though, the last boss we just wiped and wiped until the timer ran out. We lacked the DPS to kill clouds. I tried sooooo hard, I am certain I had a number of DPS who were just worthless, They had to be terrible. If we had a meter we could have asked them to leave so everyone else could have succeeded. I not certain we were not being trolled.
    I think for the people against the ideas of parsers (at least for now), their point and argument is similar to those that are for it. In that the person who does that 1/10 output will still do 1/10 output and be fine for it in the content mentioned, even if an official parser were released. They'll still be worthless/terrible for their contribution, one way or another. A parser does little to change those people, other than serve as a tool to single out said person. While some may not see that as a bad thing, part of the reason it isn't made officially avail is the same reason as to why we can't single out people on forums.

    If all 15 DPS in a WoD run are terrible, then a parser won't save your run. Asking them to step it up or leave won't work, as it's probably a DF run in 99% of any case. It's not a reportable offense neither, since that'd be implying it's against ToS to be bad at the game. Its official existence serves little purpose to those who don't care for it, and the fact it doesn't officially exist serves as that layer of protection against the sort of outcome that WoW had at one point. The parsers did not become mainstream use outside of the small number of people in endgame raids until sometime around TBC, especially WotLK actually, which is when raiding saw a significant growth in participation, and it was around that time that things became far more toxic as far as ridiculous expectations for simple content goes. Never underestimate how far your idiotic peers will go to misuse helpful tools. It's just like win-trading in TT and PvP. Devs underestimated the player bases tenacity to misuse or exploit tools given to them to do something. Just because only a few would do this, doesn't mean it won't affect the many (like with TT). The numbers game has a very powerful grasp on players in MMORPGs (and many other things really).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    You do know parsers where used as far back as Everquest?
    That was in reference to those games in particular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    Console users have no access to parsers like PC users do (I'm on PC btw), irrespective of the fact it is unofficial. It is still something PC users have access to that console users don't that does affect players abilities as without hard figures on what you are doing it is much more difficult to monitor.
    Console users also don't have access to hacks that I'm aware of. Those aren't officially supported. Something being officially supported has far more importance than you might think. Obviously, hacks are more destructive, but they're still something that console users don't have access to, if we're going to use that as some defense about why something should be supported just because one has the potential over the other.

    Look, I'm not against parsers at all. I'm 100% indifferent of them because I know the good that it serves. I also know the bad that happens, as I've experienced it first-hand over the years. I observe how things evolve (or devolve in some cases). I am against poorly constructed arguments though. And you need a GOOD and impenetrable one if you're looking to gain sway over a matter that the creators themselves don't support. That's not to say they won't ever change their mind, but these defenses aren't exactly any better than the stereotypical type that gets thrown around by both sides.
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    Last edited by Welsper59; 05-05-2015 at 09:31 AM.