Should Alexander hard drop highest item level gear?

[Teuciont]

T10 and T11 are no more difficult than Shiva X or even Odin.

Dude what?

[SDaemon]

Dude what? O.o

[Gardes]

T10 and T11 are no more difficult than Shiva X or even Odin. But that comparison ranks them above them.

Maybe if you actually tried fighting in coil before it added echo and wearing gear at ilvl 110-112, you'd realize you're spouting nonsense.

[SDaemon]

Maybe if you actually tried fighting in coil before it added echo and wearing gear at ilvl 110-112, you'd realize you're spouting nonsense.

Except there is echo and the player base isn't wearing 110-112.

[Teuciont]

Except there is echo and the player base isn't wearing 110-112.

Even considering our current gear level and echo, Odin and Shiva EX aren't anywhere near the same difficulty as T10/11. You are spouting absolute nonsense.

[Eidolon]

You still don't need the drops. You can easily make do with Ironworks gear and WoD gear.

honestly, this is just too much to try and argue, because - for all intents and purposes, yea, you can fight in sub-optimal gear just as well as you can fight in pentamelded i110 gear. That doesn't mean your typical static doesn't need the Dreadwyrm gear in order to progress. This goes right back to what I said before - just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you don't NEED the other thing.


I still remember that our BLM got geared out -extremely fast- for Final Coil when I lead my static. They got extremely lucky, getting primary left-side i130 drops almost every time we cleared a turn for the first time. These drops enabled us to be able to clear back when the amount of poetics in circulation were extremely limited. It took us 2-3 weeks per turn to clear a single turn. This is why we needed this gear. Every time we got more pieces, we were advanced to a point where we were stronger for the next turn. The upgrades of our right-side poetics helped from T11. The upgrades of our left side helped from T12. Stronger weapons, etc etc.

To say that people "Don't need it" just because you "Can do it another way" (Such as right now, by going in with a full set of ironworks i110) does not suddenly mean you don't need it. It is another option available to players. And even then, full i130 Ironworks Augmented is not an option to everyone - because not everyone has full poetics for a single class they wanna take in.

So again; yes, the raiders need their i130 gear. To progress. To make their runs smoother. To get better. The non-raiders do not need raid-equivelent gear in order to progress, because it's already designed with the baseline far below what you can buy with those tomestones. Case in point: The hardest dungouns are i90 to enter. You are effectively 10 item levels over this just by buying full Weathered gear.

[SDaemon]

That doesn't mean your typical static doesn't need the Dreadwyrm gear in order to progress. This goes right back to what I said before - just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you don't NEED the other thing.

So again; yes, the raiders need their i130 gear. To progress.

And this whole side-argument doesn't change that Dreadwyrm gear is Dreadwyrm gear and having Ironworks gear i130 doesn't make Dreadwyrm any less meaningful. It gives those players that need that ilvl the chance to progress.

You are flip-flopping on your arguement so much, it's almost impossible to constantly argue against you. You go from arguing "You dont' need this gear" to now "It's not any less meaningful!" I at least appreciate that y ou can agree that people need the ilvl 130 to progress in end-game content.

You know what? Meaningful is subjective. Who are YOU to say what gear "Means" to someone? who am -I- to say what gear "means" to someone? that is something that we can BOTH only speak anectdotaly and personally. We can not try to claim that it is "Any less meaningful" in any capacity for the world.

I know people who are excited at the start of 2.3/2.5 to be able to upgrade to the next tier, who are estatic to get stronger gear.
I know people who dread 2.3/2.5, because they feel it cheapens their weapons. I knew a bard who was so excited to get his i130 Augmented Ironworks bow, and yet as we sat around the pipes in Northern Thanalan, he couldnt' help but say with a disheartened voice, "Kind of sucks that everyone will be able to run around with this in 2.5..."

Meaning is subjective. I'll agree that it helps people progress, but again - tome gear doesn't need to go to i130 outside of coils. It's given to help people catch up, which is good on SE's part.

Flip-floping? The argument is constantly changing in this thread, but nothing I've said has been flip-floping. I have already said from several pages back that FCoB gear isn't needed to down FCoB. I have already said from several pages back that Dreadwyrm gear is Dreadwyrm gear and i130 Ironworks gear doesn't ruin any sense of prestige from wearing it. I mentioned that players like to feel like their character is progressively getting stronger, that combined with everything else is why there is no reason to restrict i130 to Coils drops at the end of the raids lifespan.

[Gardes]

And this whole side-argument doesn't change that Dreadwyrm gear is Dreadwyrm gear and having Ironworks gear i130 doesn't make Dreadwyrm any less meaningful. It gives those players that need that ilvl the chance to progress.

Which players again? Non raiders? Progress in what? light dungeons they're already clearing within the first day they entered it?

[Eidolon]

And this whole side-argument doesn't change that Dreadwyrm gear is Dreadwyrm gear and having Ironworks gear i130 doesn't make Dreadwyrm any less meaningful. It gives those players that need that ilvl the chance to progress.

You are flip-flopping on your arguement so much, it's almost impossible to constantly argue against you. You go from arguing "You dont' need this gear" to now "It's not any less meaningful!" I at least appreciate that y ou can agree that people need the ilvl 130 to progress in end-game content.

You know what? Meaningful is subjective. Who are YOU to say what gear "Means" to someone? who am -I- to say what gear "means" to someone? that is something that we can BOTH only speak anectdotaly and personally. We can not try to claim that it is "Any less meaningful" in any capacity for the world.

I know people who are excited at the start of 2.3/2.5 to be able to upgrade to the next tier, who are estatic to get stronger gear.
I know people who dread 2.3/2.5, because they feel it cheapens their weapons. I knew a bard who was so excited to get his i130 Augmented Ironworks bow, and yet as we sat around the pipes in Northern Thanalan, he couldnt' help but say with a disheartened voice, "Kind of sucks that everyone will be able to run around with this in 2.5..."

Meaning is subjective. I'll agree that it helps people progress, but again - tome gear doesn't need to go to i130 outside of coils. It's given to help people catch up, which is good on SE's part.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Alexander HM doesn't give exclusive gear models. They've explicitly stated this.

Nowhere I have seen any SE rep say this. In the worst case scenario, the Alexander HM gear will be dyeable versions of the NM gear which would still be an exclusive model gained by completing Alexander HM.