Should Alexander hard drop highest item level gear?

[Eidolon]

Kill 5000 rabbits vs 1 beastman. The Tome gear is locked behind a low weekly cap for a reason on top of the once a week lock out for the upgrade. Raid content always has superior gear for the large majority of the raid's life. Then the major patch reset happens and they are back to having the superior gear for several more months.

Over exaggeration does not suit your arguement.

Expert roulette gives 75 Poetics per day. 40 minutes each. Capped within 6 days.
Coil takes 1 hour once mastered, and multiple hours per week to learn for many.

At best, you could argue 6 rabbits to 1 beastman. but this subject is getting slightly off course now.

[SDaemon]

Over exaggeration does not suit your arguement.

Expert roulette gives 75 Poetics per day. 40 minutes each. Capped within 6 days.
Coil takes 1 hour once mastered, and multiple hours per week to learn for many.

At best, you could argue 6 rabbits to 1 beastman. but this subject is getting slightly off course now.

I made an silly exaggeration because the concept of comparing it to killing a beast-man and rabbits was silly.

[Eidolon]

I made an silly exaggeration because the concept of comparing it to killing a beast-man and rabbits was silly.

But you're missing the original point of the "Silly" (I kinda like it 'cause it makes sense) arguement. And that was that the players clearing coil DO need the gear. To make their runs easier. To make the next step of each fight more consistent. To progress. Just because you don't need it to clear, doesn't mean it isn't something you need to progress.

Just like it would be silly not to give gear for those completing dungouns. They need gear to clear dungouns. But does it need to be -just as strong- as the gear that comes from raiding?

[SDaemon]

But you're missing the original point of the "Silly" (I kinda like it 'cause it makes sense) arguement. And that was that the players clearing coil DO need the gear. To make their runs easier. To make the next step of each fight more consistent. To progress. Just because you don't need it to clear, doesn't mean it isn't something you need to progress.

Just like it would be silly not to give gear for those completing dungouns. They need gear to clear dungouns. But does it need to be -just as strong- as the gear that comes from raiding?

They don't NEED the gear. They want the gear. There is a difference. If it was needed then progression through t13 would have been impossible with lower gear and that has already been proven not to be the case. And even further still a player having i130 Ironworks gear doesn't suddenly make the i130 Dreadwyrm gear lose its meaning. It is still Dreadwrym gear and the prestige of having down the content is still there.

[Eidolon]

They don't NEED the gear.[...] If it was needed then progression through t13 would have been impossible with lower gear and that has already been proven not to be the case,

How often do you see peopel clearing with that level of gear? How often do you see people trying to -go in- or even -make- that level of gear? It's a very rare, very SMALL percentage of people that will go for full pentamelded i110 gear. If your arguement is that "Well this group could do it with X!" then I could argue, you don't need 8 people for T5. But are you going to go with just 4? Are you going to go with a full team of SCH + Marauders because Xeno did it?

Another fun fact: you DO need i130 gear for raiding now. Because without it, you can't enter. That i110/T10, i115/T11, i120/12, and i123/T13 aren't going to magically reach that number on their own Meanwhile there is not a single piece of content outside of FCOB that requires anything above i110.

[SDaemon]

How often do you see peopel clearing with that level of gear? How often do you see people trying to -go in- or even -make- that level of gear? It's a very rare, very SMALL percentage of people that will go for full pentamelded i110 gear. If your arguement is that "Well this group could do it with X!" then I could argue, you don't need 8 people for T5. But are you going to go with just 4? Are you going to go with a full team of SCH + Marauders because Xeno did it?

Another fun fact: you DO need i130 gear for raiding now. Because without it, you can't enter. That i110/T10, i115/T11, i120/12, and i123/T13 aren't going to magically reach that number on their own Meanwhile there is not a single piece of content outside of FCOB that requires anything above i110.

You still don't need the drops. You can easily make do with Ironworks gear and WoD gear.

[Eidolon]

You still don't need the drops. You can easily make do with Ironworks gear and WoD gear.

honestly, this is just too much to try and argue, because - for all intents and purposes, yea, you can fight in sub-optimal gear just as well as you can fight in pentamelded i110 gear. That doesn't mean your typical static doesn't need the Dreadwyrm gear in order to progress. This goes right back to what I said before - just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you don't NEED the other thing.


I still remember that our BLM got geared out -extremely fast- for Final Coil when I lead my static. They got extremely lucky, getting primary left-side i130 drops almost every time we cleared a turn for the first time. These drops enabled us to be able to clear back when the amount of poetics in circulation were extremely limited. It took us 2-3 weeks per turn to clear a single turn. This is why we needed this gear. Every time we got more pieces, we were advanced to a point where we were stronger for the next turn. The upgrades of our right-side poetics helped from T11. The upgrades of our left side helped from T12. Stronger weapons, etc etc.

To say that people "Don't need it" just because you "Can do it another way" (Such as right now, by going in with a full set of ironworks i110) does not suddenly mean you don't need it. It is another option available to players. And even then, full i130 Ironworks Augmented is not an option to everyone - because not everyone has full poetics for a single class they wanna take in.

So again; yes, the raiders need their i130 gear. To progress. To make their runs smoother. To get better. The non-raiders do not need raid-equivelent gear in order to progress, because it's already designed with the baseline far below what you can buy with those tomestones. Case in point: The hardest dungouns are i90 to enter. You are effectively 10 item levels over this just by buying full Weathered gear.

[Teuciont]

I made an silly exaggeration because the concept of comparing it to killing a beast-man and rabbits was silly.

The comparison was more or less spot on. There's a pretty drastic difference between being able to maim something that poses no challenge and something that's on more than equal footing with you. The fact that you're able to receive the same reward for killing any amount of metaphorical rabbits would imply that you're on the same level as someone who can slay a Beastman.

[SDaemon]

The comparison was more or less spot on. There's a pretty drastic difference between being able to maim something that poses no challenge and something that's on more than equal footing with you. The fact that you're able to receive the same reward for killing any amount of metaphorical rabbits would imply that you're on the same level as someone who can slay a Beastman.

Not really. How is Coils vs Tome grinding anything like killing a beastman vs a rabbit? T10 and T11 are no more difficult than Shiva X or even Odin. But that comparison ranks them above them.

[Teuciont]

T10 and T11 are no more difficult than Shiva X or even Odin.

Dude what?