I hate CON post 1:18

[Jabo]

Played only mages the last 2 weeks and I really don't get the complaints.
Did a lot of solo stuff, Duo, party, dungeon and not once had i have to wait for my MP.

Nuking works also fine.

The one thing that bothers me is that mages are still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to powerful.
It feels a little odd, if i can take on easily 6-8 rank 45 mobs at r33 with one class and struggle with one Rank 43 mob with a DoW class of the same rank.

[Atoli]

I manage for long times without pauses now, and it really got more challenging und fun, but there has to be a limit.
I don't even play CON because I want to heal, but because I want to elemental nuke my enemies.
If you now ALSO take away the slow but high dmg mages do, there's nothing left for this class.

Sure, sometimes I wonder if THM dmg isn't just a little bit too high when I play with my best friend (who is a THM), but when I'm a CON in a group, I notice the dmg I deal is not higher than the one other classes deal at all.
It takes me several seconds to cast a spell and with about 10 secs cooldown it's usually the same amount of dmg as the melee fighters deal at most.
Spells also consume MP, not an easy to refill ressource like TP, so we are already limited.

Seriously, I think we don't need another nerf for mages, Jabo.

Btw, I don't get how you can take on 8 monsters as a rank 33 CON/THM.
My CON is just rank 27, but there's not such a big difference, and I know if 8 monsters attacked me at once, I'd be dead before I even had the time to pull out my wand
So yeah, I think you are exaggerating a lot.

[Jabo]

Btw, I don't get how you can take on 8 monsters as a rank 33 CON/THM.
My CON is just rank 27, but there's not such a big difference, and I know if 8 monsters attacked me at once, I'd be dead before I even had the time to pull out my wand
So yeah, I think you are exaggerating a lot.

Aegis Boom

I also had a different experience regarding damage. I once did a behest with a rank 42 PUG and a Rank 49 GLA when i still was 34 THM and i did similar damagenad my CON wasn't that much worse.
You have only a 10s cooldown for one spell btw. You can still use as many additional ones as you like.
But the most important factor is your Aoe capability. You can do every 2s a AoE weaponsskill-like damage.

Fast Cast and Spiritbind helps also A LOT

[Coglin]

Played only mages the last 2 weeks and I really don't get the complaints.
Did a lot of solo stuff, Duo, party, dungeon and not once had i have to wait for my MP.

Nuking works also fine.

The one thing that bothers me is that mages are still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to powerful.
It feels a little odd, if i can take on easily 6-8 rank 45 mobs at r33 with one class and struggle with one Rank 43 mob with a DoW class of the same rank.

I call shannannagens here. You are either playing your DoW WRONG, or not being honest with us or yourself. For you to sit here and attempt to tell us the lowest HP weakest Def classes can take damage from 6-8 mobs at one time thats 12 levels above them, but you can't take it from one mob 10 levels higher?????

I have no problem, and I know no one else who does.......leaves only 2 options

1. Your a incapable DoW player, and you simply need to understand, its your fault, noth the classes.

2. Your twisting fact to suit your needs in the arguement, or your just plane lieing.

[Albio]

I don't really like CON or THM right now either. I don't have a problem with MP management at all, I actually enjoy the challenge that comes along with it now. What I do have a problem with is elemental nukes and ancient magic. I find it frustrating that my CON had, I changed stats after I saw that they didn't make a difference, 150 INT and 140 PIE and nukes still only do around 300 damage. They also miss a lot. Melee easily out paces mages for damage. I think elemental nukes should be doing damage on par with what ARCs do. They have traditionally been a source of massive spike DD in FF games. If I am rank 50 with 150 INT my nuke should easily be hitting for 1k. Ancient Magic is also a joke, even with reduced casting timers, it's not really useful and does too little damage to be worth the 100 MP it takes to cast. I really hope SE fixes this issue. I also find it unfair that mages have to poor stat points into PIE, VIT, MND and INT. Melee only needs VIT, STR and DEX, not even that much VIT because most of them have a high HP base anyway. I think the game needs more balancing. And I do not think mages are, in anyway, over powered right now. The stuff I could do on my BLM in XI was way more epic than anything I can do on CON or THM.

[Atoli]

Stat points are a total mess anyways.
I deal ~ 300 dmg with some spell without having ANY points in INT, MND or PIE.
Then I try the same spell several times on another character with about 80 points in all three of them, aaaand..STILL about 300 dmg. Nothing changed at all, so what did I even put these points in for?

Same goes for DoWs too.
For example PUG, 7-10 points normal melee dmg without any STR, 14-30 with more than 90 stat points in STR.
They could just get rid of the stats overall, since they don't do anything anyway.
The only thing stats are good for right now are additional LP and MP
So THAT's what should be worked on in the future to make the DoM classes more fun, NOT nerfing them further.

[Jabo]

I call shannannagens here. You are either playing your DoW WRONG, or not being honest with us or yourself. For you to sit here and attempt to tell us the lowest HP weakest Def classes can take damage from 6-8 mobs at one time thats 12 levels above them, but you can't take it from one mob 10 levels higher?????

I have no problem, and I know no one else who does.......leaves only 2 options

1. Your a incapable DoW player, and you simply need to understand, its your fault, noth the classes.

2. Your twisting fact to suit your needs in the arguement, or your just plane lieing.

Man, what's up with these people here...

First of all. I didn't say i can not take a 10 rank higher mob with a DoW class. I said that you struggle.
I, too can take mobs that are 10 ranks higher than me. I level on those, but it is most definitely harder for them. That's all i tried to say here.
I also kind of thought about Raptors, Efts, Skeletons and not Coblyns or Pucks.
You can solo them easily, if they are 15 ranks above. I once killed a Coblyn 19 ranks above me (on my THM though).

Second:
I already explained "how the lowest HP weakest Def classes" can take damage from 6-8 mobs at one time.
Aegis Boom. Def doesn't matter. HP matters less.
I Tank, when we Duo. With a THM. And I have to use a healing spell maybe every 10th fight, tops.

But i wasn't clear with the "struggle", "easy" terminology.
It is easy to fight 6-8 of the r45 puk, coblyn type mobs.
It isn't easy fighting even 2 r45 of the raptor, efts, skeletons, Zombie types (although it is possible to take on up to 4).

And i had PUG, MRD, THM and CON at rank 30 at the same time, once.
I did leves, behests, solo, duo, party and dungeons with every class since than.
And the mages are, especially for leves, far stronger.

I now switch from my 36 THM to 35/36 PUG all the time, because i level them at the same time.
The difference is night and day, regarding how much and strong enemys i can take.

The reason is simple. Spells do a LOT damage, you can cast them non stop. Every 5s one spell and they are Aoe. On top of that you have the insanely powerful shield skills and on top of that you have by far the best healing capability.
Gladiator has the same shield skills, but very low damage output on ONE mob.
PUG and LNC have high damage weapons skills now, but they need to wait for their tp to fill + also most skills = ONE mob. But they can't protect them nearly as good as a class with a shield + they can't heal themselves nearly as good as a mage.

[Coglin]

Whats up with these people, well "these people find it as easy if not easier to take on the same amount of mobs with a mellee. Again, your doing something wrong, and blaming the class. This is confirmed by your less then knowledgable comment about mellees being les capable to heal themselves. Where hages have MP restrictions on there heals, mellee do not. Not to mention it takes minimul effort to auire the same healing spells for all classes.

Your just playing awkwardly, or have a weaker ability set up if you are struggling where others do not.

[Ranka]

I been a CON for many months myself, was the first class I took to 50 to. People hated when I called that CON would be the one towards a whm role, and so far it seems to be that way. Now the ONLY reason con are made healers is because they are now the only class that can AoE heal(since curaga (I and II) are conjury only now) . However almost every mob in game can be managed with just 1 person getting hit by aoe, a few exceptions like biasts which does a circle aoe from spot. Now from doing DD many times we are able to run it with 2-3 healers at most while 1-2 of them are thm who keep up dots on mobs. It is not hard to heal when you have a base strategy to follow and people who actually go by it. Aoe cures are for emergency only as I see it. If the tank tanks it in the right spot and DD know how to move(mrd, lnc, etc..) then AoE should just be a emergency treatment. I personally like how they managed cures now. Actually have our tanks curing themselves to help with enmity. Now I do think this system does still need work, but in no way is the system broken now, or we would see no one finishing DD.

It takes time getting used to a new system and I do hope we get some some more mp management, but it is far from broken. Also for myself Cure II is only healing spell I use as a main, Cure III is emergency and curaga I treat the same. I do not even have Curaga II on my bar since I never see a need for that. Now I do agree if you try to solo heal stuff now it is much harder such as grinding groups and stuff, but its not impossible.

BTW I have no problem throwing nukes in myself in between heals. You never specified what is so hard for you to heal now, but as far as DD and later level grinding groups go it was never a issue for me. Well whether ya hate CON or not is not my issue, but they class is far from broken.

[Jabo]

Whats up with these people, well "these people find it as easy if not easier to take on the same amount of mobs with a mellee. Again, your doing something wrong, and blaming the class. This is confirmed by your less then knowledgable comment about mellees being les capable to heal themselves. Where hages have MP restrictions on there heals, mellee do not. Not to mention it takes minimul effort to auire the same healing spells for all classes.

Your just playing awkwardly, or have a weaker ability set up if you are struggling where others do not.

1. So you are telling me it is easy to take on a 57 Raptor as a 45 LNC?
Not talking impossible here or whatnot. Just easy vs hard.
You are even talking about the same amount of mobs. So i would gladly see a LNC or MRD defeat easily 3 Raptors at the same time.

2. Melees have TP restrictions for their healing skills.

3. Mages can use Second Wind too, which only leaves Bloodbath.
And you think Bloodbath is better for healing then Sacrifice II or III or Cure II and III. Really? An attack which can only be used every 50s+, an attack where you need to sync it with your strongest weaponskill to be even slightly comparable to Tier II healing spells, and if you miss, you don't get healed in an often close situation.
Mages have also Aegis Boom, which is a mostly a free 500HP. Without the need or TP or MP.

4. Healing spells on other classes are much weaker and their your have your MP restrictions because they have 1/3 the MP and they cannot refill 50% of it every 10min.
Mages can use Bloodbath and Second Wind, too. Second Wind without any restrictions.

5. There are so obvious reasons why mages simply can take a lot more enemies at the same time. Assuming you are attacked by 8 enemies 10 ranks above you.
PUG, LNC, MRD, ARC get 150dmg per hit = 1200dmg every 5-10s
THM, CON, GLA get healed every hit for 50HP = 400HP healed every 5-10s

just in the first seconds.

PUG, LNC, MRD, ARC and GLA have to hit one mob now, till they have their 1000/2000tp, before they can land one single AoE weapon skill they already took 2500-3500 DMG.
The Mages have ~20s Aegis Boom up, which allows you to cast 10 AoE Spells with comparable damage.

So in these first 20s DoW classes took 3500dmg and had 1-2 Aoe attack were Mages got healed for 1000HP and did 10 AoE attacks.
You are also safe for the next 20s if you have Sentinel.
So in 40s it would be 7000DMG and 2-4 AoE Attacks vs 1000HP healed and 20 AoE attacks.

And I'm not playing my DoW classes wrong, if i simply can not heal myself against 8 enemies instead of getting 5000DMG in 30-60s, because i simply can not.
And I'm not playing it wrong because i simply don't have a powerful AoE attack which i can spam every 2s. Because thats the lowest auto-attack timer of every melee class on one single, low damage attack. I simply don't have the skills.