Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[Kosmos992k]

I wish more people would understand this stuff. Whenever someone calls me an elitist its always like its a bad thing. If someone calls you an elitist, feel proud because there is nothing wrong about striving to be the best. Also Welcome to the team Purrfectstorm enjoy your stay there is cookies and hot beverages.

Striving to be among the elite is NOT the same as being elitist, it is absolutely not necessary to be an elitist or indulge in elitism in order to be elite. If anything, I would say that being elitist is almost mutually exclusive with actually being among the elite.

Yet, they are two different things regardless. People should recognize that fact. You can be an elitist, and asshole, or an elitist AND an asshole. Just because you can be both does not make it accurate to conflate an asshole with an elitist. Simply shows that the person accusing doesn't care about the distinction.

Agreed, a distinction is appropriate, however, let's not pretend that elitism is a good thing, or that elitists are positive thinkers who benefit everyone. There is a reason that elitism and elitist always bring negative conmotations to the table with them. As I said just above, actually being elite is nearly mutually exclusive with being an elitist. Being elite isn't aboutself inflated ego, being elitist *is*.

[Elazu]

Pretty much this. I haven't delved super far into late game (haven't done [cleared] Coils, no one to go with.. -_-) but I've played MMOs for a long time. Even if I'm "new," in a few minutes or tries, I'm more than likely going to be better than your worst party member. Give it a little longer, and you won't even notice I'm new.

I hardly ever read read, I just skim over the party-wipe mechanics or one shots. I just adapt to everything else. If I fuck up, I ask people to tell me what I'm doing wrong. I don't get mad if someone tells me I did something dumb.. I'm dead. I did something dumb.

It's all about perspective.

And that is a great thing and it should be understood that NOBODY is complaining about people with your mindset. But unfortunately an overwhelmingly huge portion of the playerbase is not like this.

[AlexionSkylark]

What's called an elitist is not necessarily someone who "strives to be the best", but someone who despises anyone who's not in the same level of gear, skill and/or experience that he is.

[Tiggy]

or that elitists are positive thinkers who benefit everyone.

Let's not pretend they all are either. That's a fallacy to assume they all carry the negatives of the few. That's kind of the point of this thread.

There is a reason that elitism and elitist always bring negative conmotations to the table with them.

A lot of that is ingrained prejudice from those pointing the finger at "elitists" as well. It's no different than racism at it's core. People are quick to point and call elitist for almost no reason at all. It's a fallacy to automatically assume someone who runs high end content is elitist and I see that happen all the time, or as a knee jerk reaction to avoid taking constructive criticism. I've literally been called an elitist because in Ultima I said "Hey <off tank> the strat in this fight is at 3 stacks you provoke off the other tank." I was railed against for being elitist when doing nothing more than trying to help. So lets not act like this is a one sided issue where only the "elitists" are the assholes. That's the point I was making. You can be an asshole and not be an elitist too just like you can be an elitist and not be an asshole. They are not mutually exclusive and when you act like they are you are making a blatant logical fallacy. People should stop propagating this ridiculous notion that everyone at the high level of play is an elitist and therefore automatically an asshole. It contributes directly to the negative environment many "non elitists" claim to hate so much and yet at every turn they fail to comprehend how their actions are at fault as well.

[Crescent_Dusk]

My problem is with people so confident in their skill level that they oversell it and pretend they're in a skill category they don't belong to while berating the "peasants".

You see it with actually elite guilds. In top world guilds, you rarely see members come to forums to insult/mock people, and ingame they stick to their guild groups and don't go making PuGs where they only pick people geared better than themselves.

Also, being good at a videogame DOES NOT ENTITLE YOU TO SOCIAL PERKS. You may be an authority in your area of performance, but you do not, under any circumstances, get to think of yourself as more deserving of enjoyment and reward compared to the other person paying the same sub fee as you.

People who come to videogames just so they can lord their "bragging rights" are a scourge upon the world. The world does not exist to validate you or put you on a pedestal get over yourself.

[Kallera]

Let's not pretend they all are either. That's a fallacy to assume they all carry the negatives of the few. That's kind of the point of this thread.

I'm pretty sure all racists don't fervently believe in the things that they say either and that some simply "grew up with it".

That doesn't mean said actions should be sugarcoated ,or being a jerk should be praised. Elitism is a mindset, yes, one doesn't have to be good knowledable or skilled to be one, all they really need is a ego and a willingness to step on people they perceive as beneath them in gaming skill. A person wants to be seen as good, knowledgeable, or skilled, that's fine. When you start using said skill as an excuse to jab at folks socially and subvert parties, that's elitism. Leaving a party or rage quitting is not the same as a long winded tirade about how that last wipe killed your faith in the party healer, but since your such a nice guy you'll keep tanking if everyone learns quick.

[KaedrianLiang]

/cut

Don't forget, the vast majority of "elitists" under this classification are just reiterating what someone else has posted on some other forum, their findings and strategies are often not their own or even born from their own observation and experience in the raiding environment They are typically not elite enough to form or join a fc with like minded players with similar skill sets, that's on the cutting edge of raiding.

The mmorpg jargon of Elitist.

As for those players that are on the bleeding edge, i classify them Elite or Pros.

[Kosmos992k]

Let's not pretend they all are either. That's a fallacy to assume they all carry the negatives of the few. That's kind of the point of this thread.

That's not the vibe I got from this thread, what I got was someone who is suffering from veteran player fatigue was trying to justify the behavior and feelings that result by redefining elitism as a good thing, and subsequently claiming to be an elitist - as if it were a good thing.

A lot of that is ingrained prejudice from those pointing the finger at "elitists" as well. It's no different than racism at it's core. People are quick to point and call elitist for almost no reason at all. It's a fallacy to automatically assume someone who runs high end content is elitist and I see that happen all the time, or as a knee jerk reaction to avoid taking constructive criticism. I've literally been called an elitist because in Ultima I said "Hey <off tank> the strat in this fight is at 3 stacks you provoke off the other tank." I was railed against for being elitist when doing nothing more than trying to help. So lets not act like this is a one sided issue where only the "elitists" are the assholes. That's the point I was making. You can be an asshole and not be an elitist too just like you can be an elitist and not be an asshole. They are not mutually exclusive and when you act like they are you are making a blatant logical fallacy.

Clearly though, you were not being elitist in your example (nor, bases on what you have said were you doing anything other than offering pertinent advice), and the person hurling the label was doing so incorrectly. Elitism is a form of prejudice, it's not a positive distinction of one group from another. It's a way of excluding those considered to be lesser than those doing the excluding.

Being an asshole is not synonymous with being an elitist, but being an elitist may be synonymous with being an asshole. There are a whole lot more assholes in the world than there are elitists, it's just that every elitist I've met has in fact also been an asshole. And let me just say that most elitists I have met in Eorzea, were far from elite, couldn't play for crap despite their gear and were clearly not elite raiders. They made pretty good assholes though.

[DarkDedede]

You make a good point, and honestly I used to feel that way too. But let me point out: this ISN'T any other type of RPG. Its an MMO. And while I still consider myself new to the world of MMOs, I've learned to take it as it is. I expect it to be an MMO, and not something else. That means if it takes a little more work or effort to be good at it, I'll simply do that. I like Tetris too, but that doesn't require, nor offer as much as FFXIV.

I know completely what type of game this is. Which is why I stated that, while I understand the need to "do your research," I still find it a bit silly. The same could be said about many aspects of the game. However I do think it needs to be realized that the game is designed to cater to the players (all of the players), and not the other way around. If an issue is brought up that results in a 40+ page discussion, I would think that is a pretty good indicator that something should be done, and improvements should be made.

I'm not taking any one side in this discussion. I've experienced instances where my "reservoir of good will" and patience were drained by a variety of different players (even in premade groups), for a variety of different reasons. However, I also realize that is it much less expensive to change the game than it is to change "people." This is why I'm more apt to suggestions solutions to improve the game, as opposed to shaking my finger at a group of "people." Most of which I'd guess that do not read this forum (or even care that the forum exists). Even at the risk of being shot down by "human reasoning" (and its stock template responses), it's still more productive than the equivalent of "howling at the moon" or "trying to slamming a revolving door."

A computer program determining whether or not someone "did well" at something outside of some arbitrary metric that's open to abuse would require an AI capable of subjective reasoning. So unless you're proposing that SE implement GLaDOS into the game to figure that out for us, I think I'll stick with human reasoning.

I don't see what's so "arbitrary" about being dead for 80% of the fight, and still being able to roll on the loot. I'm pretty sure I mentioned a system similar to how FATEs are handled. That's not terribly strict, but it doesn't hand all of the rewards to those that only contributed a minimal effort. The player still gets some credit, just not the gold medal standard reward.

I'd imagine you should be looking forward to the new Loot Master system they are going to implement. No need to worry about Big Brother trying to ruin your fun there. :P

[karateorangutang]

I was gonna come and make sure to bump this thread some more... but i'm glad to say someone already did it for me.