Does anyone else find healers DPS impact on group ironic?

[Niqote]

We already know that scholars wipe the floor with white mages in ff right now. All this is going to cause is white mages to be benched/blacklisted in heavensward with astrologian replacing the white mage.

Whm is the superior DPS ^^.
It's simply situational like all things. WHM and SCH are perfect compliments to each other in every way and are both very valuable.
Besides, it's the player - not the job.

[Gallus]

Whm is the superior DPS ^^.
It's simply situational like all things. WHM and SCH are perfect compliments to each other in every way and are both very valuable.
Besides, it's the player - not the job.

AOE more than 4 mobs yes. Single target nope.

[Gallus]

A healer who is DPS'ing will not contribute any more than 8% of the damage of a DPS player

Lol. The entire game is based around scripted fights where you exactly know what's gonna come and what you can expect xD, a smart healer can find a trillion gaps (boss just autoattacking between attack X and attack Y) where they can reliably DPS without putting the party in danger; yes, higher ilvl gear might eventually make you ignore certain aspects of the fight and further widen those gaps where a healer can DPS even more consistently, but...8% of a DPS class? Lmfao. I've seen terrible (and when I say terrible I mean terrible) healers start FCoB a few months ago back when you would play this content at around i110-i120 and pull i100 DPS on average in T10 -especially SCHs-. If your numbers were right, that'd mean a DPS class could pull +1k DPS xD (not talking about damage spikes but about the average damage throughout 8-10 minutes).

[Whiston]

A lot of people really have it right in this thread.

Its obvious why healers contribute so much to group dps.
A pretty bad Bard in a given encounter will do sub 300 dps while a passable Bard will be over 400.
A weak warrior will do 200 dps in a fight while a good one will do over 400.
Even full vit parry paladins in shield oath will do about 200 dps.

A healer not dpsing does... Zero.
A healer dpsing any amount is an increase of a lot. If they go all out, a scholar can do 350-400 dps.

There are no opportunities in this game for anybody else already dealing damage to make up an extra 300 dps. Everyone else, no matter how little, is already dealing damage.

[Elusana_Celah]

words

Typical procedure is that scholars are allowed to do a bulk amount of DPS while white mages with their huge healing power solo heal certain phases or parts of phases and scholar will jump in to mitigate when necessary. This is pretty useful. I mean on my white mage I'm practically solo healing phase 1 of T13, solo healing phase 2 of T13 when add is down, can and do solo healing phase 3 during adds before Twin. Solo healing most of T9, most of T10, much of T11. Scholars step in to mitigate.

In fact the irony is that many of those solo heal cases in the coils, a good white mage can just do the whole place by themselves while you grab another DPS instead of having that scholar lol. But scholars can also solo heal, it's just that scholars run into difficulty pulling the group out of bad situations where people are taking too much damage that they shouldn't be which makes white mages great for recovering derps or maybe you have 5 bennus in T12 cuz of poor DPS, scholars have difficult keeping up with the AE of phoenix if DPS is too low since whispering wind will not always be off cooldown, worst nightmare for scholar is party at 1000hp, whispering wind + fey illumination on cooldown lol, succor about 6-9 times before phoenix blasts party AGAIN.

However, I am also concerned with white mages viability with the new heal class. We will see what white mages bring to the table with their new skillset eh?

Whm is the superior DPS ^^.
It's simply situational like all things. WHM and SCH are perfect compliments to each other in every way and are both very valuable.
Besides, it's the player - not the job.

I parse higher on my white mage than scholar, literally around 350DPS but scholar is around 200ish. But you can burn around 3500 or more MP per minute on white mage, pop shroud, shroud is on a 2 minute cooldown so you burn through another 3500 MP and you got no shroud... bards can't keep MP song up so meh. White mages have a tough time with MP, I've gotten phases 1-3 down in T13 to where my MP levels are good but if I started spamming stone and DoTs I would be begging for bard assistance pretty quickly. I can add a little DPS, sure, but you gotta stop you can't just go deep into DPS rotation carelessly like you can with a scholar. Scholar's MP always full.

[Ghishlain]

A healer who is DPS'ing will not contribute any more than 8% of the damage of a DPS player will over the same amount of time unless they have very good tanks or are neglecting to do any healing whatsoever.

8%, eh?

Good healers know how to keep their party alive
Excellent healers know how to keep their party alive while contributing additional DPS/support while managing their MP effectively so they're never put into a "tight bind"

While healer DPS shouldn't be as good as a real DPS, saying they contribute "less than or equal to 8%" DPS of a real DPS is false. It's more like 50% of any real DPS, and maybe total party DPS contribution of 8%.

[Anna_Lannis]

Part of it is that a healer who cares enough to juggle DPS in the first place is obviously trying to do their job the best that they can, which immediately puts them ahead of 90% of the knucklehead DPS you come across in a typical dungeon. I've come across some abjectly terrible DPS, and a whole bunch of lazy healers who sit back and do literally nothing apart from tossing a heal out on the tank when they have to, but the lazy healers aren't the ones who actively switch into cleric stance and do the minimal amount of healing necessary.

^ This.


I DPS in parties because I'm actually invested in my job. WHM is quite literally the sole reason I play FF MMOs at all. I eat, breathe, and sleep WHM. The whole reason I started crafting so I could make my own HQ X-Mind Pots and HQ X-Ethers, and HQ Pineapple Ponzecake and Sachertorte to dungeons and raids. I DPS in dungeons and CT raids, because I know what I am doing, because I'm actually engaged in the actual fight and in the actual game.

You have to understand the fundamental differences between an RPG and other games. Most video games generally exist for the expressed purpose for shooting things, fighting things, bashing things. Even in game like Harvest Moon there are more than a few people who have aggressive or distrustful mentalities and there is always a "justification" for why they do. Healers are almost never player characters, other than being in an RPG. Many people play RPGs as DPS classes because they want to attack things, score the most points, and put up the numbers. The thing is in RPGs your are playing with a party and thats where the problems begin: some players only care about the touchdowns *they* score, and only pursue individual glory. So when you think of DPS, most people think of classic video game irresponsibility of YEAH I GET TO SHOOT THINGS!!! Which leads to most DPS with loads of queue times, with many healer and tanks not wanting to babysit people. In a fighting game, you can't just turtle, projectile spam, or mash buttons, you have to dodge, block, and use combos. In shooters, you have to use tactics and strategy.

"It wasn't my fault we wiped, I had top DPS/healing". This is also the reason I quit playing WoW. Was I graded on my ability to learn mechanics, come to raids prepared with flasks and feasts, and read up on fights on the web? No, I was graded on Healing Done. Doing other productive things when party didn't need healing, not matter what it was, was sacrificed so I can throw all my healing CDs so I can go, LOOK, I'M HEALING.

Most DPS can do something other than DPS. Playing a Monk and unavoidable damage is coming to your raid? Fists of earth and Mantra. Bards have songs. Dragoons have Feint (gotta love being able to 20% slow for 30+ seconds), Summoners can battle raise, Black Mages have Lethargy, and Atherial Manipulation/Wall. You know what most of these have in common? NO ONE EVER WANTS TO USE THEM. Because of DEEPS. I don't want to do mechanics.... I want to DEEPS. No I don't want to skill chain or learn my class, I want to DEEPS! *jumps up and down like a 4 year old* I WANT TO DEEPS!!! I WANT TO DEEPS!!! MOMMY THE BAD HEALER IN CLERIC STANCE WON'T LET ME DEEPS!!!1 THIS PARTY SUX!!!1 Parties happen when people look out for each other, and it a lot of cases people fail to understand the damage and healing aren't mutually exclusive and then is more to a job than being a one trick pony. Being responsible require maturity a lot of FFXIV players don't have.

An healer, to dps effectively, needs a party of people that is not dying on every little thing

[Elusana_Celah]

umm

Were you casting holy on multiple targets to achieve those numbers? Or was it during a battle voice foes? Cuz I'm sitting in full i130 gear on my white mage and there's only 3 things to do with DPS and that's spam stone II and keep your AEs up and I only got 350-375 on a single target. Also the first minute or so of a DPS parse is the parse settling down after burst damage kicks in, give it another minute and 30 seconds.

[Burningskull]

I prefer fights that are designed around Healers healing, DPS killing stuff, and the Tank keeping hate, and anything extra the players do just makes a fight go faster. But that's just me lol.

[Ghishlain]

Were you casting holy on multiple targets to achieve those numbers? Or was it during a battle voice foes? Cuz I'm sitting in full i130 gear on my white mage and there's only 3 things to do with DPS and that's spam stone II and keep your AEs up and I only got 350-375 on a single target. Also the first minute or so of a DPS parse is the parse settling down after burst damage kicks in, give it another minute and 30 seconds.

It was a trash pull, specifically the final packs of mobs before the last boss of Keeper of the Lake. Foes was up, but pretty sure not battle voice. All mobs were pulled up to each anti-SR barrier, so it's about 6-8 mobs per pack. It's intentionally skewed in a specific way just "to prove a point" honestly. This particular poster has made comments like these in the past, specifically:

There's rarely a situation where the Healer's DPS'ing makes a difference, since you're not contributing 25% of the DPS, you're contributing maybe 3% at most.

on the healer forum about a month and a half ago.

That being said, I understand Healer DPS will never be as powerful as a real DPS on any single target boss. However, a healer can prove respectable numbers that is much higher than this particular poster makes it out to be. And while I agree it's not a mandatory requirement for any fight, a healer should be making all efforts possible to play at the highest tier possible. Whether this means providing additional suporrt or DPS in raid content or just patching up a TON of mistakes in WoD - healers should strive to play to their fullest.