Does anyone else find healers DPS impact on group ironic?

[Aeyis]

Most extremely good healers in raid can switch Cleric Stand like a boss in dungeon setting. The best one was a whm friend of mine who holy spam big pull then benediction tank just before he come down, give him a little bit of buff then back to holy spam. The dungeons that usually take 25 mins to complete only take 15 mins when I go with her.

Thats not good, that's being lazy. I did that all the time when I was playing and dead tired or just not into the game at the moment.

Casting is very boring in this game, fyi. If I will heal I will rarely or never cast damage spells, with the exception of holy, which cant be used much due to its MP cost.

[Lyzern]

Thats not good, that's being lazy. I did that all the time when I was playing and dead tired or just not into the game at the moment.

Casting is very boring in this game, fyi. If I will heal I will rarely or never cast damage spells, with the exception of holy, which cant be used much due to its MP cost.

I'm sorry, I must be misunderstanding, but are you saying that going the extra kilometer to stance dance and deal damage is being lazy? Or do you mean the Benediction thing? If you mean the Benediction thing, it's called being "smart", not "lazy".

[Aeyis]

I'm sorry, I must be misunderstanding, but are you saying that going the extra kilometer to stance dance and deal damage is being lazy? Or do you mean the Benediction thing? If you mean the Benediction thing, it's called being "smart", not "lazy".

Using Benediction like that is lazy.
Everyone is free to stance dance or not. But people who require it from others are just being hypocrites.

Part of it is that a healer who cares enough to juggle DPS in the first place is obviously trying to do their job the best that they can, which immediately puts them ahead of 90% of the knucklehead DPS you come across in a typical dungeon. I've come across some abjectly terrible DPS, and a whole bunch of lazy healers who sit back and do literally nothing apart from tossing a heal out on the tank when they have to, but the lazy healers aren't the ones who actively switch into cleric stance and do the minimal amount of healing necessary.

Due to the large delay between casts in this game, as well as its server side ''lag'', its a very unfriendly game for ''stances switching''
Sorry, but the game just doesnt support doing it (in a way that isnt frustrating as hell)

[Fynlar]

Using Benediction like that is lazy.

Uhh, no. Hanging on to it and never needing it (because face it, if you're not DPSing, most dungeons will be facerolls to heal) is just a waste of the skill.

This thread is filled with some really bad misconceptions on how to play WHM effectively. No wonder people think the job is lacking.

[Garlyle]

Uhh, no. Hanging on to it and never needing it (because face it, if you're not DPSing, most dungeons will be facerolls to heal) is just a waste of the skill.

This thread is filled with some really bad misconceptions on how to play WHM effectively. No wonder people think the job is lacking.

This. Benediction takes 0.5 seconds to cast and heals for more than anything in your arsenal. It doesn't require you to stance dance. It doesn't eat a GCD. And frankly, on any serious boss fight, you should be aware enough of what damage goes out when to not be needing Benediction during an actual boss fight (because, frankly, if you do - something's gone wrong to begin with). Blowing it during a huge add pull so you can keep pumping out Holy is the most efficient answer.

Either way, it's absolutely true that even a mediocre DPS can outdamage a healer who's actively trying to DPS. But the thing is, the expected healer DPS output is 0. It's still extra DPS.

[Aeyis]

Uhh, no. Hanging on to it and never needing it (because face it, if you're not DPSing, most dungeons will be facerolls to heal) is just a waste of the skill.

This thread is filled with some really bad misconceptions on how to play WHM effectively. No wonder people think the job is lacking.

Yeah, like yours. I'm not surprised people believe that WHM is very effective (compared to SCH), with opinions like that one.

A great healer has no need to use Benediction in any situation but a clusterf*. Nor the need to actually use Benediction as a healing supplement just ''because its off cd and I wont use it anyway'', since their normal heals would have virtually the same effect.

Hence why it's lazy to use it like that, sorry if it wasnt clear enough before.

This. Benediction takes 0.5 seconds to cast and heals for more than anything in your arsenal. It doesn't require you to stance dance. It doesn't eat a GCD. And frankly, on any serious boss fight, you should be aware enough of what damage goes out when to not be needing Benediction during an actual boss fight (because, frankly, if you do - something's gone wrong to begin with). Blowing it during a huge add pull so you can keep pumping out Holy is the most efficient answer.

Why even mention boss fights at all? Boss fights are far easier on reaction speed then group pulls are. And 0.5+ cast interuption will be more then 0.5s, fyi.
I've seen quite a few amusing times when someone died during the bare 0.5 seconds as well. (during the actual effect animation, that is)

[jumanjilover89]

Thats not good, that's being lazy. I did that all the time when I was playing and dead tired or just not into the game at the moment.

Casting is very boring in this game, fyi. If I will heal I will rarely or never cast damage spells, with the exception of holy, which cant be used much due to its MP cost.

Using Benediction like that is lazy.
Everyone is free to stance dance or not. But people who require it from others are just being hypocrites.

Join Date
May 2011

i bet you are also of the opinion that 1.0 was a better game

[Garlyle]

snip

You're right about one thing: No great healer should need Benediction. And we don't. So why just let it sit there doing nothing? What else are you saving Benediction for, really? The same can be said of Presence of Mind, or Divine Seal - technically you can probably do all the healing you'd need without ever hitting these buttons. But show me someone who'd argue you're playing WHM well when not using them.

Not using perfectly viable tools available to you, that's laziness for all classes. You have tools to make use of them. The attitude about using tools (either GCD or cooldown in XIV) is the difference between trash DPS and fantastic DPS; between trash tanks and fantastic tanks; and the same goes for healers.

And yes, those of us that use Benediction like this are fully aware of the activation time. Trust us - we're likely more practiced than you are with it.

Yes, it's a minor cast interruption. But it's drastically shorter than the equal length interruption for cleric stance dancing (removing it is instant but re-entering it does have an animation lock) and the GCD you use to cure. In the chaos of larger pulls, one cure isn't going to do the trick either if there's still plenty of mobs up - you're likely going to be burning back-to-back to cure up significant amounts of damage. You also have to account for the cast time - Benediction may be slightly delayed, but it still triggers

On one end, we can stand there slinging back to back cures and waiting out a longer fight. Or we can have Stoneskinned the tank at the end of the last fight, pop Divine Seal + Regen on the tank, pop Presence of Mind, blow Holies, hit Benediction halfway through, and be done the encounter in a fraction of the time because Holy is a better AoE trash clearing tool than most DPS classes can match.

There's absolutely a time and place for saving your major tools for specific purposes (Presence of Mind for T10 Preys, for instance). The reality is, when we're pulling regular trash or busy healing 24 man raids, we've already factored that all in. We know we don't need Benediction or Presence of Mind or Divine Seal 'in a pinch'. We know what we're doing. Not finding alternate avenues and purposes for them? That's laziness. That laziness may be why you find it boring - because you're just accepting "eh I get the job done" instead of "I get the job done as efficiently as possible and while still doing as much other good as I can in the process".

An healer, to dps effectively, needs a party of people that is not dying on every little thing

As an addendum, we really do. Tanks, we're happy to jump in on your massive pull and keep you alive while pumping out Holies, but, y'know, you've gotta actually blow tank cooldowns and meet us halfway. And if we're having to sink 800+ MP and cooldowns into raising constantly, we really are not going to have the resources or time to add to DPS as well.

[KisaiTenshi]

An healer, to dps effectively, needs a party of people that is not dying on every little thing

There's enough "Should healers DPS" garbage arguments in the healer forum, it doesn't need to be dragged out here.

The game is designed around clearly defined roles, of which the conjurer/white mage was the only healer. Cleric Stance was added way back in 1.2x, after they took away half the skills.

If players were playing the game exactly as the developer intended, the healer would only be healing, the tank would only tanking, and the DPS would be the only be DPS. That is what the game balance is designed around. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go back and play the low-level dungeons again. The game's levelsync/ilevel sync needs to be tightened up so that one can't simply faceroll through every dungeon once they go past the ilevelsync point. Coil is currently has no upper bounds, yet the minimum requirements are the same as "The Bowl of Embers (extreme)", yet the Steps of Faith minimum requirements are the same as WoD, and Second Coil turn 1.

By all accounts, the ilevelsync should be set at "whatever the gear rewards are +20", Stone Vigil hard (which gives out ilevel 80 gear) is set to 110, but so is Wander's Palace (which gives ilevel 55 gear.) None of the Trials are ilevel synced.

So one has to ask why would these Raids difficulty requirements be backwards? It's because people who are unlocking the storyline will just barely pass that ilevel point, but people who are doing the Extreme Primals and Coils will be maximizing their gear before trying it.

A healer who is DPS'ing will not contribute any more than 8% of the damage of a DPS player will over the same amount of time unless they have very good tanks or are neglecting to do any healing whatsoever. The only reason it seems like the duties are going by faster aren't due to the Healers participating in DPS, it's due to the DPS not pulling their weight. Overgeared players need less healing, therefor have more opportunity to DPS.

[Fynlar]

A great healer has no need to use Benediction in any situation but a clusterf*.

Are you implying that things should only be used when they are "needed"?

Because that's a pretty subpar playing style, and that doesn't go just for healers

A healer who is DPS'ing will not contribute any more than 8% of the damage of a DPS player will over the same amount of time unless they have very good tanks or are neglecting to do any healing whatsoever

74% of statistics are made up on the spot