Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[AlexionSkylark]

I challenge every one here saying casuals are "victimizing themselves" to log in, and look at your PF for any learning parties for any content that's not T12 or 13.
If you find any, post screenshot here.

Please, do this. Let's see how many we find across servers. Do you guys accept my challenge?

[Dement]

I challenge every one here saying casuals are "victimizing themselves" to log in, and look at your PF for any learning parties for any content that's not T12 or 13.
If you find any, post screenshot here.

Please, do this. Let's see how many we find across servers. Do you guys accept my challenge?

This is a moot point cause I can make my own at any time of the day. Will it fill? Maybe. Can I meet people who are on the same content as I am? Yes. Can I talk to said people. Yes. Next time I'm looking to do this content, can I ask these same people again? Yes. 6/8 Party Finder parties have a higher likelihood of filling than 1/8.

You can also Duty Find it. Will you clear it? Unlikely. Will people bail after a couple of wipes? Maybe. Is it possible to get to meaningful phases and actually learn through it. Yes, you absolutely can.

Is your FC/LS helping you at all? Are they around the same level you are or are they much higher? If they're much higher and they won't help you ever, at all, never going to do it... then why are you in that FC/LS? Alternatively, what do YOU do for the FC/LS? I'm in the top ranks of my small ~40 (15 active) FC and if I see someone asking for help for something I will try to make time. However, how hard I will try will typically be indicative of how much the other offers to help. Does the other person join lower people for their runs? Do they give their time and skills to others? If they do then I'll be much more inclined to force some free time to happen. Hell at the very least be somewhat active in the FC/LS. At the very least say Hello when you log on and try to join in conversations that you can. The more friends you can make, the easier things get cause your friends have friends who have friends. The ONLY legitimate excuse for never helping lower level was prior to the weekly clear cap getting removed. I can't go help someone on T10 if I'm on T11. However, that's no longer an excuse.

[AlexionSkylark]

This is a moot point cause I can make my own at any time of the day. Will it fill? Maybe. Can I meet people who are on the same content as I am? Yes. Can I talk to said people. Yes. Next time I'm looking to do this content, can I ask these same people again? Yes. 6/8 Party Finder parties have a higher likelihood of filling than 1/8. You can also Duty Find it.

So, you are saying that for me to do content, I need to form not one, but SEVERAL PF parties, do a truckload of networking, add like 10 or 15 names to my friendlist so I can find at least 5 more logged in at the same time as myself another day, form a semi-filled PF party (or be lucky enough to find all 7 online) to even SET FOOT inside the instance. So THEN we finally have a shot at TRYING to learn the fight. That provided among the 7 you found to the party there isn't a jerkish tank who'll say "this DPS won't cut it. I'm out" after the second wipe, and party will disband afterwards, to MAYBE try another day.

That's your solution?

[Dement]

So, you are saying that for me to do content, I need to form not one, but SEVERAL PF parties, do a truckload of networking, add like 10 or 15 names to my friendlist so I can find at least 5 more logged in at the same time as myself another day, form a semi-filled PF party (or be lucky enough to find all 7 online) to even SET FOOT inside the instance. So THEN we finally have a shot at TRYING to learn the fight. That provided among the 7 you found to the party there isn't a jerkish tank who'll say "this DPS won't cut it. I'm out" after the second wipe, and party will disband afterwards, to MAYBE try another day.

That's your solution?

Yes. Patience is a virtue. You won't clear it today but what else are you going to do? Join a farm group, get cussed out and booted and come to the forums to talk about how terrible the community is? In that scenario you've alienated 7 other people who might possibly one day help you. Reputations go a lot further than you'd think, good or bad.

[AlexionSkylark]

Yes. Patience is a virtue.

I'm not even talking about clear. I have NOTHING against wiping 100x in a fight before I can get a clear. That rosary was just for GETTING INTO the instance.

[ToasterMan]

If I didn't have the group of friends and static that I have now to run things with, I would have quit playing the game a long time ago and moved onto another game

[Dement]

I'm not even talking about clear. I have NOTHING against wiping 100x in a fight before I can get a clear. That rosary was just for GETTING INTO the instance.

Then join the DF, it'll pop eventually and you don't have to worry about any of that.

Then ask your FC/LS for people to join you. If they don't then why are you in that particular FC/LS?

That rosary was for having a shot at going about it in a PF learning group. There are lots of different ways you can approach it if you truly want to learn/clear. Most of them take time and networking cuts that time down by predisposing you to a group of people in similar situations.

[Ashkendor]

So, you are saying that for me to do content, I need to form not one, but SEVERAL PF parties, do a truckload of networking, add like 10 or 15 names to my friendlist so I can find at least 5 more logged in at the same time as myself another day, form a semi-filled PF party (or be lucky enough to find all 7 online) to even SET FOOT inside the instance. So THEN we finally have a shot at TRYING to learn the fight. That provided among the 7 you found to the party there isn't a jerkish tank who'll say "this DPS won't cut it. I'm out" after the second wipe, and party will disband afterwards, to MAYBE try another day.

That's your solution?

Well, it certainly doesn't make you look nearly as dumb as jumping into a 7/8 farm run with no prior experience in the raid, claiming you know the fight but just haven't cleared, and wiping at the very first boss mechanic.

In any case, yes. If you want clears in the most expedited and least painful way, you will need to put in some effort. You will need to join learning parties or make your own. You will need to get out there and meet people that want to do the same thing you do. In other words, you will need to put in the same amount of effort that people that cleared it before Echo and DF put in when they first got into their statics or linkshells. Do you think raid statics grow on trees? Do you think that there's some weird hidden stat on your character that means you come into the game with a network of veteran players already in place? Nobody's going to come to you and drop a clear into your lap unless you have some very nice friends, so you'd best make peace with that now. Veteran players don't typically put up party finder advertisements looking for inexperienced players to help (and by 'help' I mean 'carry') unless there's a hefty fee involved. Some of us, however, are quite willing to jump into parties with players that have taken the initiative to put together a message that basically tells the world: HEY, I WANT TO LEARN. We help those that help themselves.

Your alternative is lying (which we've been over) or Duty Finder (which has its own issues), so pick your poison.

[AlexionSkylark]

you will need to put in the same amount of effort that people that cleared it before Echo and DF put in

Actually it's not the same effort. First because it's a feasible option to find learning / clear parties on PF... WHEN THE CONTENT IS BLEEDING EDGE. Second because as time advances, more and more people will have cleared the content and will be less patient with people who don't know it yet. Third, the number people who need that clear dwindles as time go by, making harder and harder to put together a party with each passing week.

So no. It's not the same effort. I GUARANTEE you went through much less pain to find people willing to wipe on T9 back when you cleared it than you would right now.

[Dement]

Actually it's not the same effort. First because it's a feasible option to find learning / clear parties on PF... WHEN THE CONTENT IS BLEEDING EDGE. Second because as time advances, more and more people will have cleared the content and will be less patient with people who don't know it yet. Third, the number people who need that clear dwindles as time go by, making harder and harder to put together a party with each passing week.

So no. It's not the same effort. I GUARANTEE you went through much less pain to find people willing to wipe on T9 back when you cleared it than you would right now.

I'm not sure what you're GUARANTEEING here. When I was getting my T9 clear it had a weekly lock on it. That effectively made sure that there weren't ANY learning party finders ever. Furthermore, people who had cleared it for the week and were thus experienced could not help you. Furthermore, most of the community is in a static of some kind and wouldn't raid with anyone else not because they didn't want to but because if you cleared the content you'd lock yourself out of your static's run time. It was not in Duty Finder. You either had a static or you got insanely lucky to find enough people who were not running with their statics that week or had other issues come up. The only other possibility was jumping into a static that was missing someone and couldn't fill the spot with stand-bys.