Sooo are SMN and SCH being separated?

[Hiruke]

Just remember that "no base class" could just mean that they didn't create a base class for Dark Knight, Machinist, and Astrologian like they did with Rogue for Ninja. Dark Knight could still role off of War, Machinist could role off of Archer, and Astrologian could role off of Conjurer.

I think the only problem they really had with Sch and Smn is that they are two different roles for one class, where as Dark Knight is a tank the same as War, Machinist is a DPS the same as Archer, and Astrologian is a healer the same as Conjurer.

If I had my way SMN would be a melee mage that worked like Yuna in Dissidia, or the gameplay of Folklore.

No, it couldn't. They said "no base class" not "no NEW base class". The 3 new jobs literally don't have a class. It's the job, period, with the requirement to get them being to be level 50, clear the ARR story, get into Ishgard, and get them quests. It doesn't matter if you're a level 50 DRG with nothing else, you could open up those 3 new jobs.

The class > job system is bad, no matter how you look at it. The 2 jobs from one class concept is even worse, and brings way too many problems. With SMN and SCH, the problem is different roles. But if they shared the same role, the problem would then become, are these really different enough to merit a second job? For example, they would have easily made THF and NIN come out of ROG, and give THF a different style (maybe make it a trap job?), but since they didn't, one has to assume they either aren't smart enough to have thought of it, or they thought it wouldn't be different enough to be worth it.

[Burningskull]

It was just a theory I had and one I had seen others suggesting. Personally I've always felt summoner was designed wrong anyway. Outside of one or two pet abilities you don't really do much with your summon. Basically the only thing seperating you from a scholar is that you can't heal / shield. Your traits are the same your debuffs do the same. You get Fester and a 5 min Enkindle that does as much damage as crit-ed melee attack.

I personally feel summoner needs to be reworked fromt he ground up to be more summonerish and to have it's own uniqe ness. Monk and Ninja is fast DPS, Dragoon and Black Mage tend to do burst damage, Summoner is the Damage over time job with Ruin 2 it's only burn potential.

But hey they say they are doing major changes to it so who knows how it will work in the future.

[KisaiTenshi]

The class > job system is bad, no matter how you look at it. The 2 jobs from one class concept is even worse, and brings way too many problems.

That's wrong. It's just Final Fantasy's version of what they had in FF1 that they cribbed from Wizardy. In Wizardry you were supposed to upgrade to Elite Jobs from the base classes and take a few cross-class skills with you. FFXIV's version is barely a shadow of how this works. In Wiz, you could take -ANY- skill, not just the select few in the class and even fewer in the Job.

The only reason SMN/SCH is kinda broken is because all the DPS power has to come from the pet, and the pet AI is way too dumb. If it doesn't come from the pet on SMN, then SCH is more powerful than other DPS. But the healing pets are either too powerful (letting the SCH ignore healing and just DPS) or too weak and too slow (in harder content.)

Like the way to fix this is to really just come up with an Expert/Specialist Job that replaces all the base class and job skills (eg White Wizard instead of White Mage) when equipped.