Dear All Bards,

[SuperZay]

you're a support/DPS hybrid.

No, bard is DPS class with some support abilities which are most of the time totally useless and affect nothing (that's the only reason why some players totally ignore them in trash content like Towers).
Just because BLM has Lethargy/Apocatastasys (buff/debuff actions) doesnt make it support/DPS hybrid as well. It's still a full fledged DPS class.

[Clarkamite]

No, bard is DPS class with some support abilities which are most of the time totally useless and affect nothing (that's the only reason why some players totally ignore them in trash content like Towers).
Just because BLM has Lethargy/Apocatastasys (buff/debuff actions) doesnt make it support/DPS hybrid as well. It's still a full fledged DPS class.

Comparing songs to Lethargy or Apoc is a really weak comparison. The whole point of being a Bard is singing songs. If someone doesn't want to sing songs then they shouldn't be a Bard. You want to just Pew Pew all day and have a lot less responsibility than be a BLM or something. I say that being a BLM main. I can only influence the battle so much with my "support" abilities but for the most part the way I help the raid is me keeping up DPS and mitigating damage coming at me. Bards on the other hand influence the raid by singing songs that benefit the party, not just themselves.

[SuperZay]

Comparing songs to Lethargy or Apoc is a really weak comparison. The whole point of being a Bard is singing songs. If someone doesn't want to sing songs then they shouldn't be a Bard. You want to just Pew Pew all day and have a lot less responsibility than be a BLM or something. I say that being a BLM main. I can only influence the battle so much with my "support" abilities but for the most part the way I help the raid is me keeping up DPS and mitigating damage coming at me. Bards on the other hand influence the raid by singing songs that benefit the party, not just themselves.

It's not about not wanting to sing. It's about songs being very circumstantial. And about demanding bad players who can only scream 'MP! MP!'/'TP! TP!' without having any idea about Shroud or being too lazy to level lancer for Invigorate.

[Gilraen]

Actually... woe be to the tank that has to fight bad Bards turned Black Mages... I've seen these bad Bards truck through all their attacks and popping their anti-enmity actions almost as soon as their cooldowns were up. Imagine the enmity generation of a Black Mage that did that... But yes, singing songs shouldn't be a constant thing. What good is Foe's in a party that has no DD casters? "But the healers are going to be DDing, too!" I hope not! I hope they're healing, it's kind of what they do. If they CAN DD then great, but I'm not going to sing under the pretense that they will be. Ballad is something I try to be proactive about, singing it on my cue should I see a White Mage low on MP or another Bard singing a song. Paeon if there's more melee DDs than caster DDs. You know, as it's needed. Otherwise, I'm not going to so that when I do need to I have the mp for it.

[Clarkamite]

snip

Songs are circumstantial and you shouldn't have to rely on the bard to refill your mana but that is their whole purpose: to provide a respectable DPS while having a lot of utility that benefits the party in more than just them hitting something hard. I can understand not singing Paeon to a certain extent when you don't know a DPS is low on TP but refusing to sing it because you just don't want to defeats the purpose of being a Bard. I can think of plenty of times when the melee DPS in my group have NEEDED a Paeon through no fault of their own. Not to mention is there a downside to singing Foes and increasing your casters DPS in fights? I wish my Bard would sing it in more appropriate places to be honest rather than just singing it randomly and without warning.

I get what you're saying though. We don't bring a Bard so he can make up for DPS not having Invigorate or Healers not knowing what it means to not over heal, we bring him so that he sings his songs in appropriate situations to help ease the clearing of content. It's not necessary for him to. But then again, it's not necessary for me to pull 500+ DPS either, but I still do it.

[Clarkamite]

What good is Foe's in a party that has no DD casters? "But the healers are going to be DDing, too!" I hope not! I hope they're healing, it's kind of what they do. If they CAN DD then great, but I'm not going to sing under the pretense that they will be.

In that situation, it would be most beneficial to know ahead of time that your healers are going to be DPS'ing. You could have your Bard put up Foes, have the SCH cast some dots and the WHM do some stuff and then he can just put it back down when their DPS'ing is done.

Having our Bard put up Foes right before the Hallowed Akh Morn or Flatten before our SCH puts up his dots adds a huge amount. More than you would initially think. Not to mention he's boosting my numbers there too.

[SuperZay]

In the end all that matters is it's our subscription money and we can play however we want if we consider it more fun. We don't need people to tell us how to play 'correctly' in their opinion.
Save 'Use it.' demands for your friends or something. I never tell healers to help with DPS if they are just standing there throwing one Cure every 15 seconds. It's their gameplay choice even if they can contribute more. Don't see how it should be any different for other jobs.

[VanilleFang]

Alright, so it seems a few people don't understand the point I was trying to make I'll explain.

To say you don't want to sing songs because it is not necessary is a weak defence. The point I was trying to make when I said "I won't heal you" is that it is not required for a WHM/SCH to heal a BRD in CT. I have never been in any run in any CT raid where a BRD won the fight for us. A BRD is not required to clear the raid. A BRD being dead or injured during a raid does make it unbeatable. It will be slower if you are down a DPS but it makes the healer's job easier and may even allow them to DPS more. So if you are not going to be a team player then why should you be healed by the team? If you want to ignore supporting your team so you can have more DPS then maybe others should do the same to you. (I would never condone or support this I'm just trying to make a point)

I also have a question. Do the Bards who don't use songs use Straight Shot? If so then that is pretty hypocritical. Straight Shot isn't required. And yes, I know it does damage, but you are using it to increase your own DPS.

The last thing I want to talk about it people saying the game never says BRDs are DPS/support. The BRD quest line literally says that the whole point to being a BRD is that they are able to bolster their allies. That is whole whole reason your character even trains to be a BRD. I'd leave quotes but I'm too lazy at the moment.

[LTEvil]

I feel people are arguing the difference between decent and good.

All you can do is offer advice. The choices they make ultimately define them.
/Shrug

[Neo_bahamut]

Yes you have to heal people as a healer, otherwise you worse then bards that don't sing.

Well I don't think one is worst then the other a healer that solely focus on tank and one dps not the bard is not a good healer granted but the dungeon will still end successfully so the point is valid if the bard say we don't have to do it to clear well you don't have to live to clear either BOTH methods are foolish as it will take longer to get anything done and wont be a fun run ppl should strive to play the class they are with as designed at the very least if all the brd wants to do its wreck shit then they should have played mnk or blm o.O