Dear All Bards,

[DarkStaoneDragon]

if I see that theres BLM or SMN I normally use Foe, but if not I use Army's for the tanks and other DPS with battle voice, when playing BRD.

[Darkstride]

Just do your job instead of worrying about them speeding up your clearance time.

This thread is so enlightening....

I guess I don't need to be concerned with efficiency. Who knew?!

Since Bards are apparently allowed to ignore a chunk of the abilties that define the job itself.....

I can stop using Goad on people when they need it.

I can stop using Trick Attack to support group damage.

I can stop using Dancing Edge because the extra slashing damage just makes the mob die faster and that isn't important.

I don't need to worry myself with Ninjutsu because Mudra are just so darned pesky to put in the right order.

I'm a DPS. I can just hit things because I'm not part of a team. This should be relaxing.

Oh, and no one is allowed to complain about the glacial pace of completing the content, you speed-running elitists! It's my job and I'll play it how I want!

[Snugglebutt]

This is going to be a long post and will repeat a lot of the things I have said before, but no-one is forcing you to read it.

This thread is so enlightening....

I guess I don't need to be concerned with efficiency. Who knew?!

You want to be efficient when taking part in easy content? That's is your choice to do that if that is what you want, I have no problem with that at all whether that means your using perfect rotations on trash mobs or easy bosses, popping pots and food buffs in easy content like 4 man dungeons, B rank or A rank hunts, when taking part in fate parties or in the easy raids like ones described by the OP. Whether you want to pull every mob in a dungeon to clear it quicker or skip cutscenes. That's your choice and I would respect that choice you made on your character to push your own harder to clear something faster but I would like it if you showed the same respect for others who do not wish to do those things on theirs when such things are not needed or required.

Since Bards are apparently allowed to ignore a chunk of the abilties that define the job itself.....

As I said earlier...The support skills (by 'chunk' you mean the measly three support skills vs eighteen DPS skills) are not being ignored overall in the grand scheme of things per se, they are generally used when needed instead of when not needed, as far as I am concerned bards are perfectly okay to rely on their primary role instead of support role when taking part in easy content which does not require it's use. My issue with this thread and the OP is his demand they play songs when not needed in easy places which do not require any songs to be played at all including the insults and attempts to belittle any bard who does not conform to your speed run preferences when taking part in easy content.

I put forth my opinion that in those specific easy places using those specific skills mentioned by him is not complaint worthy in comparison to for example places which need to use those skills and more skills than he listed. That in those places he mentioned players do not need to speed run it, should not be forced to speed run it just because he might prefer they did in the same way tanks should not be forced to speed run dungeons if they do not want to do so, players not forced to eat food buffs or pop pots in easy content where not needed just because someone else wants to speed run it, that players do not need perfect rotations in easy content which is an extension of the threads premise, the premise of players have to do (x) because I want to clear content faster not just because want to actually clear it which such skills are not required in the examples he gave.

I can stop using Goad on people when they need it.

Given my stance has been throughout that if it is needed then people would have it and people should do it at those times...what you just said doesn't seem related to what I have been saying. In fact I have said constantly if it is needed people should do it but if not needed then it is up to the individual if want to do such things and that people should respect that choice in that situation. It would of been more relevant if said when people 'want' it and not when 'need' it, this threads premise is about speed runs, some peoples 'wants' and not their 'needs'.

Let us also not forget I do actually play songs all the time in easy places like WoD, that is my preference but the difference is I do not think I should be forcing everyone else to do so just because I prefer that play style on mine when taking part in such easy content. I understand it is not needed, that speed running is just a preference or want and not a need, so I will not force others to speed run against their will when there is no need to do so.

I can stop using Trick Attack to support group damage.

I don't need to worry myself with Ninjutsu because Mudra are just so darned pesky to put in the right order.

I can stop using Dancing Edge because the extra slashing damage just makes the mob die faster and that isn't important.

Speed running content is not important to a lot of people, clearing content is important to almost all people. Speed running is just a preference some individuals have. My stance is people who share the OP's view do not get to force everyone else to share that preference, to stop trying to enforce your chosen play style on others when your play style is not needed in that specific level of difficulty content. Nothing stops you from pushing your own character harder to clear easy content faster and most people are willing to respect your choice to do that with your character most of the time but likewise unless your paying other peoples subscription fees and came to an agreement with them to speed run it...prior to joining that DF for those places then I am asking you to respect their choice too just like they might have respected your choice to push harder on your own character if that is what you wanted to do.

I'm a DPS. I can just hit things because I'm not part of a team. This should be relaxing.

On easy content if you want to push your DPS hard, use pots or food buffs, not deviate from a perfect rotation that is fine. It is however also perfectly fine to take it easier, not use pots, not use food buffs and put less effort into your rotation when not on hard content...the kind of content that does not require such. That is the difference between my stance and some other people here like the OP or yourself. If taking part in hard content which requires a class to push the limits of his characters skill set then I will also push them to make use of it but in easy content I respect the individuals right to not speed run as long as the content is being cleared unlike you and the OP for example in what appears to me to be your stance.

Oh, and no one is allowed to complain about the glacial pace of completing the content, you speed-running elitists! It's my job and I'll play it how I want!

Of course you can complain about it but to me if your going to complain about something then at least complain about something more worthwhile in my opinion like using all the skills needed to clear hard content when taking part in hard content, I might even agree with you on some things in that situation, speed running easy content however is nothing more than your preference. Such things like skipping cutscenes because might be to speed up the run, pulling all the mobs to speed it up or using food buffs/pots to speed it up. All of those things are merely preferences.

You however do not get to force everyone else does the same as you just because you prefer such things in my opinion, not on easy content, not when in DF as opposed to being part of a static, PF group or when tackling content which actually might require such. In PF you have the right to force others to do so because you write in the listing such things as a requirement to joining the PF, in statics you have the right because as a static you all come to an agreement before doing the runs but the examples given by the OP most people are there through DF not PF or statics.

The only bad bard is the bard who refuses to play songs when needed, when not needed and they do not they are not a bad bard. You can call them lazy if you want because they are not helping 'speed run' easy content but more often than not you can only call them lazy in easy content and not lazy where it actually counts which is the hard content.

As I said I do play songs in easy content most of the time especially in raids of any kind but unlike some here I do not hold a grudge, hate or have contempt towards those who do not play songs when songs are not required in easy content. I think a lot of the time those that do not in easy content probably do not because it is easy content and they may have already spent a lot of time stressed out doing hard content which required their complete focus and then came to do easy content to relax more, or they have cleared it a hundred times that day and are bored out of their minds with it so decide to do enough to make sure it gets cleared but make it less stressful on themselves for that specific run by focusing on their primary role instead of secondary one for once.

I have no problems with people taking it easier in easy content as long as it gets cleared. I do not think it has anywhere near the amount of bards implied by some here that are not playing songs because of their e-peens. But even if some were not playing because they have e-peen ego issues, then so what? As long as it gets cleared and they play if they need to play which they do not in the examples given by the OP more often than not then all it means is few minutes longer to clear aka not a speed run. Hardly the end of the world.

It does not make them a bad bard, it just means in that specific easy content location, at that specific time did the run, a run which did not require songs to complete it...they didn't feel like 'speed running' it which is fine by me. No one has to give 100% focus and effort, 100% of the time and no-one should feel bad about taking it easier on easy content as long as it gets cleared. In case many of you forget this is a game, one which many people use to alleviate the stress in their lives so I have no problem with them taking it easier in 'easy content' that 'does not' require they give 100% effort in order to clear it. I would only have a problem with them if did not give enough effort to clear it.

Same reason I don't bitch and whine about people watching cutscenes on their first time in a place. Same reason I do not demand they bring food and potions to buff their character in easy content just to speed up a run or whine about people not using perfect rotations in runs which do not require such effort or whine about tanks who do not want to pick up all the mobs in a dungeon in one go to speed up runs. If gets cleared that is all the matters, speed runs do not matter and they are just a preference and not a requirement.

On a side note...not sure why some people feel the need to purposefully remove the context of my comments in their quotes, mislead or lie about the things I have said or why some people are having such a hard time understanding my position which is quite simple to understand even if you do not agree with it.

[NyarukoW]

Don't put the bard in danger, Foe's only good when they are close to the target. They are better off reserving that MP for ballad for the healers to res all the dead players over and over. The WHM and SMN players really do appreciate the ballads.

[Nestama]

Don't put the bard in danger, Foe's only good when they are close to the target. They are better off reserving that MP for ballad for the healers to res all the dead players over and over. The WHM and SMN players really do appreciate the ballads.

They don't need to be hugging the mob, they just need to be within "healing range" of the mob. If a healer can survive being near a mob so they can still heal a tank, then a BRD should be just fine (hell, Repelling Shot requires a BRD to be near the mob).

Anyway, I main Black Mage and not Bard, but when I did play Bard, I would always use Foe Requiem because party efficiency > personal DPS. In CT raids, I'll use it for trash mobs and bosses (though turn it off if another BRD is using it), in Light Party dungeons, I'll use it if the tank is doing big pulls. I'll even use Battle Voice if there's up to 10+ mobs.

In Final Coil content, I've found myself using Apocatastasis more often than before, though I reserve it only for the WAR (Imdugud's charge -that is magic damage, as Manaward mitigates it- and Phoenix's Revelation).

[SinisterJointss]

Honestly IMO (I main a bard) I play songs while in WOD, CT etc but if you are talking roulette expert it really depends on the situation.

Foe's whenever I have a caster or smart healer who dps's, maybe TP if its a speedrun but aside from that THERE IS ZERO REASON FOR TP or BALLAD IN EXPERT -- End of story...period.

Speedruns you can argue for TP or ballad even (holy spam) but by the time the next pull gets done everyone is usually full.


You can call it lazy all you want but at the end of the day its the truth. ANYONE arguing that is only lowering their dps. If you arent speedrunning you dont need TP or MP and RARELY do you need it even if you are speedrunning. Its called being more effcient, want me to play a song that lowers my damage by 20% when you dont even need it? Dumbest thing ever.


A good bard isnt a bard who just plays songs whenever they are barked at, a good bard is the one who plays without you asking and knows when to turn them off. Some of you people in this thread amaze me.

[NeoZanther]

I do tend to notice that I'm one of the few Bards that actually sings much. I try to sing when needed in dungeons and usually have Foes up on bosses in the CT runs just to speed it up some. If in 4 man content and there is a Blm or Smn then Foe will be up as often as possible. I've healed many a dungeon where there is a Brd and Blm and there is no Foe up the whole fight. If I do happen to see a Foe up often enough then that Brd will get my Comm.

[TheWaywardWind]

I do tend to notice that I'm one of the few Bards that actually sings much. I try to sing when needed in dungeons and usually have Foes up on bosses in the CT runs just to speed it up some. If in 4 man content and there is a Blm or Smn then Foe will be up as often as possible. I've healed many a dungeon where there is a Brd and Blm and there is no Foe up the whole fight. If I do happen to see a Foe up often enough then that Brd will get my Comm.

Singing is super important, and I make sure to pay extra attention to whatever Bard does in my part so I may commend them.

[myahele]

Foe Requiem: Reduces all enemy magic resistance by 10%. MP is drained while singing. Effect is lost if targets move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse. Cannot be used with other songs.

Note how it doesn't talk about a 20% damage reduction while playing?

The excuses that many of these Bard main use is so very disappointing. Other than losing MP there is NO penalty for using Foes if there is atleast one caster in the party and many healers will atleast dps a bit, too. Mobs/bosses die a bit faster on "easy" content.

[sayafrost]

I'm still learning BRDing, but hell if I see I have caster in party, of course I will use Foe, I also keep my eyes on the MP of the healer if they need Ballad, and at the beginning I always tell tank, that if they need to ask for Peony, because I'm so bad I still don't understand if they are out or not. If tank dies, and healer has enough MP after resurrecting, I go first with Peony to give tank at least a chance to get aggro back. But I noticed in CT, ST and WOD, even if there is casters, bards tend not to use Requem.

BUT I'm still learning to use it well - for ballad I train with my healer, so i get the idea where to start it without her asking.