Astrologian Speculations! How will it fit in?

[Cariborne]

That's like telling DPS that it's ok not to learn and use their proper rotations and CDs if they aren't comfortable with that level of activity. Sure, they can get the job done in most cases without playing as well as they could, but it shouldn't be encouraged.

But yes, definitely excited for AST and to see how it fits in with everything.

Well, following the rotation and doing the most DPS they can is the DPS's job. Keeping everyone alive is the Healer's job. If the DPS isn't comfortable using Cooldowns and Rotations, they shouldn't be a DPS. A healer DPS'ing is extra, it's not part of their job description and a majority of healers can't DPS when they're just learning a fight or starting off with gear. It's extra stuff that they do when they reach that comfort level. DPS is always supposed to DPS, and cutting corners hurts their role.

[Cynfael]

Snip.

I look at it as everyone's job to do the best they can, and a healer who "cuts corners" by doing only what they believe to be the minimum required of them when they could be doing more is performing as poorly as the DPS who can't be bothered to learn and execute optimal rotations.

DPS is absolutely part of a healer's job description, in much the same way a tank should optimize DPS beyond the bare minimum they need to hold enmity; it's just that DPS is of secondary concern to healers when they literally can't or don't know how to correctly DPS a fight.

If you give people a pass on account of "not being comfortable," that's as good as a license to be lazy if it suits them. If healers can DPS, they should.

[Zohar_Lahar]

So i'm guessing, with a name like Astrologian, their moves (and equipment) will have an astronomy/astrology theme? I wonder they'll get (toned down) Flare Star, Grand Cross, or Almagest as skills.

[Brightshadow]

I look at it as everyone's job to do the best they can, and a healer who "cuts corners" by doing only what they believe to be the minimum required of them when they could be doing more is performing as poorly as the DPS who can't be bothered to learn and execute optimal rotations.

DPS is absolutely part of a healer's job description, in much the same way a tank should optimize DPS beyond the bare minimum they need to hold enmity; it's just that DPS is of secondary concern to healers when they literally can't or don't know how to correctly DPS a fight.

If you give people a pass on account of "not being comfortable," that's as good as a license to be lazy if it suits them. If healers can DPS, they should.

And who would you blame for everyone dying, due to you not being comfortable DPSing, yes the healer. Not only is it unnecessary for the healer to DPS but its also an extra. And people that push for the healers to DPS are going to cause a shortage in the role which is really counterproductive look at how many tanks actually play. We don't need people to avoid playing healers because the community demanded that they DPS.

[Cynfael]

And who would you blame for everyone dying, due to you not being comfortable DPSing, yes the healer. Not only is it unnecessary for the healer to DPS but its also an extra. And people that push for the healers to DPS are going to cause a shortage in the role which is really counterproductive look at how many tanks actually play. We don't need people to avoid playing healers because the community demanded that they DPS.

The only "demand" is that players strive to play well, and learning how and when to provide supporting DPS as a healer is part of that.

Standing around doing nothing when healing support isn't required is playing poorly; healers who are very good not only take advantage of obvious lulls to DPS, but also anticipate or create windows in which to safely apply further DPS.

The concept is really much simpler than a lot of people on forums make it out to be. No one advocates healers DPSing to the exclusion of their primary responsibility of healing, and there are times when you simply cannot help DPS. However, DPS is a responsibility shared throughout the party, as there are no duties that grant you completion for most damage mitigated or highest HPS. Good players actively support this goal, regardless of their primary role, by doing the best they can at all times so long as it doesn't interfere with their ability to perform their role correctly; tanks maximize DPS when enmity is secure, healers off-DPS when it is safe to do so, and DPS provide utility and perform mechanics as needed while still maintaining their optimal rotations.

[Knoahl]

I personally think AST will play more into buffing DPS rather than doing the DPS, obviously it will still be capable, but I don't nescessarily see it having SCH's niche. I think SCH/AST will be amazing offencively paired (Selene/Cleric and Cards and should shields stack, huge barriers making old content easier due to gear scaling giving both time to dps) and WHM/AST will be very defencive (Big heals, paired with buffs and Astro shielding).

We have to bare in mind that WHM has Proshell and Improved Stoneskin, SCH has Adlo crits, Fey Covenant, Fey Illumination, Glow and Light, Virus and Sacred Soil. (of course there is more to mention)

Astrologian won't replace the other two healers, but instead strengthen them, should they make card buffs overwrite each other and shields not stack or w/e, it would make stacking AST not entirely ideal, I think the healers will all benefit well... but imagine having all 3 in one party! xD

[LycorisSelunis]

Just realized that since astrologian is a job, it will only have cross class skills from 2 classes with no base class. This means one of conjurer, arcanist, or thaumaturge will not give cross class to AST.

What is worse to not have as cross class?
CNJ protect, stoneskin, cleric stance
ACN virus, e4e
THM swiftcast

Personally, unless they have their own version I consider swiftcast pretty important. But not having protect or e4e in a 4 man dungeon would be pretty suck, or cleric for soloing.

Also be use the job starts at 30, will they be unable to lvl sync below 30? All their skills they 'start with' would need base levels below 30 then. Also I am assuming they toss in weapons for the 3 new classes into dungeons and crafting, other wise that would suck.

Also consider what the AST needs to be on par with other healers in terms of kit. I would consider these bare minimum however unsure of how their stances changing the functions of existing spells will affect

Basic heal-cure, physick
Larger heal- cure2, adlo
Two aoe heals- medica and medica2, succor and whispering dawn (yes WD is on a cd but its still a huge aoe healing tool, and technically WHM has 3 with cure3)
Remove status- esuna, leeches
Mp recover-Shroud, aetherflow
A split healing tool-regen, embrace
An instant off gcd heal, limited by cd or special resource-benediction, lustrate
Some cooldowns that either improve self actions or defend the party. WHM has self buffs as divine seal and presence of mind, scholar has party help in fairy cooldowns and sacred soil.
Some dps spells to solo with.

[Cynfael]

Snip.

It's hard to discuss cross-class skills when we don't know much of anything about what skills the AST will have built into it. For all we know, Protect could end up being redundant for AST, and they could even end up with their own version of Swiftcast while being unable to cross-class with THM. Hopefully we'll find out more soon.

[FoxyAreku]

I think Astro might be the perfect solo healer when overgeared (or at gear level).

It sounds like it can do throughput AND mitigation, just not at the same level of white mage and scholar.

As for cross class skills...they don't need virus or E4E, so that's the obvious choice for me. Arcanist skills are very meh WHEN COMPARED to conjurer and Thuama skills. If you need virus for a fight you can just get a summoner.

And who would you blame for everyone dying, due to you not being comfortable DPSing, yes the healer. Not only is it unnecessary for the healer to DPS but its also an extra. And people that push for the healers to DPS are going to cause a shortage in the role which is really counterproductive look at how many tanks actually play. We don't need people to avoid playing healers because the community demanded that they DPS.

Please don't ever play a scholar.
*hugs Selene and his cleric stance hotkey*

[Oriens]

Some of the ideas mentioned make me really excited to play this job on release! As a career healer (both SCH and WHM) I hope AST brings something new to the table. A single target MP refresh ability? Raid buffs? Emnity dump/transfer? Reraise? I also hope it is not reliant on Cleric Stance to deal damage. My last wish is that WHM not a "must" for raid composition.