Would you PvP more if...

[Buff_Archer]

Something to consider- Frontlines PVP is currently the only instanced multiplayer content in the game where we don't have the need for people to queue and commence with a preset Tank/Healer/DPS ratio. Whereas supply & demand for players in tank/healer roles has much to do with wait times for running dungeons and often having to choose the class you want to play based on how much time you are willing to spend waiting in line to play the game using that class- we finally have something where that isn't a factor, and as soon as a sufficient number of people have queued up that's all that's needed for the game mode to commence. When 24 people or 72 people register, a match with that many players would be able to begin. Except no, it doesn't work this way because for an artificially imposed reason, the GC restriction. Whereas other content has a need for the Tank/Healer/DPS balance to be able to proceed successfully, that type of supply/demand has NOTHING to do with how queueing for Frontline works, and so far that's been fine... people can change class in instance and rebalance their party, I do it all the time.

But what a gigantic waste that we have these unnecessary roadblocks for the one thing where we'd be fine without them. Reminds me of a club that opened downtown a few years back, they'd keep a long line of people outside so it would fit a certain kind of look, the one time I went there I was inside with a couple of friends with the club mainly empty inside, while the rest of our friends and plenty of other people were kept waiting outside. They were anxious to get in, we were bored waiting on them, all because of a decision someone at the top made that there always needs to be a line because that was more important than the experience of the customers themselves. Guess what, that club didn't stay open for very long.

[Fuma]

Yes, drop the GC requirement for better queues for the small group that do enjoy the content. I doubt this one change would be that hard to implement.

[PlumpyMcduff]

I posted this in the PVP Forum which I think is very pertinent to this topic... would love if y'all would read & provide feedback (in that thread though as we should migrate this discussion thatta' way)...

In fact, SE Dev, could you please migrate this thread to the appropriate PVP Forum & visit us over there today? Please & thank you!


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...respond-please


A few ideas:


A GC-Unrestricted "fill queue" (random GC assignment, enables friends of differing GC's to ally together finally).


Change PVP Roulette to include Bonus PVP Exp./Wolf Marks.


Remove queue-based 72man Slaughter (all it does it cause the client to delay to begin a match in hopes of filling a 72man instead of multiple 24mans; 72man Slaughter could still occur in a 'guaranteed format,' outlined below).


Have, at minimum, one virtually guaranteed 24-72man Frontlines occur every hour of the day (possibly, alternating between Secure/Slaughter).

For even odds & equitability, these matches could be up to Light Party queue only & assign a random GC to each entrant/Light Party group.

It could work like Chocobo Racing, you'd opt-in & then it'd put you in regardless of player count once the timer expired. Latecomers could join-in up to a certain time into the match.

If 100 players opted-in, both a 72man & a 24man would start on time.


The remaining 4 players would be put on a hold (this' where the "virtual" comes in) until enough additional players opted-in, in which another 24man would begin.

Heck, it could be designed such that if that queue were taking too long, a prompt could appear on-screen notifying players that enough have queued to fill a Wolve's Den bout instead & if they'd rather like to participate in that in place of continuing to wait.

Client could even show how many active, guaranteed Frontlines are taking place & how many have queued for the pending one... so those 4 have a way of telling if it's just not going to happen for them right then (current FL queues should show this anyway, they should show how many are queued up for each individual GC even).


Lastly, SE should design a rectangular 8v8 map to help combat this rare scenario too.

Besides, it'd be fun, could do like Capture the Flag or something.


Also, revivify Wolve's Den...

Make Leaderboards & have Arena Seasons with special PVP armor/weapon rewards or something.

Have separate Leaderboards/Rankings for Solo Queue & Light Party Premades.

And do a Daily Roulette: Wolve's Den (solo) & Wolve's Den (light party) for bonus PVP Exp & Wolf Mark's.


NOTE TO SE REGARDING FFXIV'S PVP:

I know you guys get a lot of crap from people regarding its design... but I tell you, haters gon hate. I play a ton of competitive PVP games & have PVPed competitively in nigh every MMO in existence.

Yes, I did WoW PVP religiously for a while... and I mostly loathed it for reasons you guys legitimately solved. You've implemented things I've been asking for in other MMO PVP environments for ages.

PVP-Specific Actions & Traits as well as PVP-Specific Balance Changes chief among them. You guys are on the right track with this machine, you've just handled the queue's & restrictions wrong.

Your current system shoots PVP in the foot by making it unfriendly for play-with-friends (e.g. GC Restriction) & by severely hurting queue times by things like GC Restriction & multiple formats too soon.

I'm not saying remove GC Restriction anymore, but ease it up... let people who don't care about GC-centric PVP fill the ranks unrestricted or ally with their friends of differing GC's somehow.

There's merit to GC loyalty & fighting under your GC banner, so keep it sure... but allow those who could care less to have their positive social experience aligning with friends of differing GC's in Frontlines.

Lastly, it's utterly imperative that you untie PVP Rank from GC's, that you use some of the added character data from 3.0 to save PVP Loadouts by Job, & that you add a "Swap Alliance" Feature for PVP (so if one Alliance has 4 Healers but another has 0, 2 Healers can trade-out).

Each of these things highly dissuade people from switching Jobs in PVP which can be hugely detrimental (no healer alliances) & deincentivize people to switch GC's in a negative way (I hate pirates but my friends love them, just because I don't want to be Maelstrom or they do want to be Maelstrom, I shouldn't be locked from Frontlining with them... it's just silly, let us have the GC we want & still Frontlines alongside our friends of differing GC's).

I love you SE & please don't take this the wrong way, I mean this with all my love for the developers & for the game--but your stubbornness with regards to GC Restriction is killing PVP. I say this with utmost passion for the PVP you've implemented (I honestly love it, so much so that this must be said to you, because it's dying a slow death).

So please, for the love of PVP, reconsider how you're handling this.

The rudeness was because of the overstepping, therefore rude, reply you made to me. You apologized and fixed it, so therefore sorry for responding to you in such a way. Just got irritated cause I was just sharing my opinion didn't expect someone to repsond like you had.

Thank you for your apology as well! We're on good terms appreciate you & your useful critique bygones are now bygones <3

[Mugiawara]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Earth:_Zero

Make the game like THIS! AN ACTUAL TEAM EFFORT GAME!
I miss this game so much! The best PvP I have ever played and I am not a PvP person.
As it stands; frontlines is nothing but a stupid zerg fest. Get a BLM/SMN sleep everyone LB, and ta-da, you win!
It was fun when it was first released but since it's a zerg for all, nah...Only a select people
go back to manor's and do what they need to do, but everyone else just tries to kill a PLD all day...It's not fun.
Also, the time waiting = the actual game play ain't worth it...the rounds or what? Give or take 10mins for the hour wait?

[Gralna]

Nothing they could do would really draw me to pvp, since I don't enjoy pvp in general.

[Gryzz]

In fact, SE Dev, could you please migrate this thread to the appropriate PVP Forum & visit us over there today? Please & thank you!

I made this thread here for a reason. The people whose opinion i really want to see are the ones who gave up/ don't PvP at all. The people who don't go to the PvP forums.

Its interesting to see some of the replies. A lot of people just aren't interested in it which is cool.

If the majority here say there's nothing SE could do to participate in PvP, then I respect that. But if the general consensus is that they tried it, it was too broken, and they quit? Then I really hope the majority of people can be more vocal about it here. That would make SE at least realize its something the people want.

[Xoriam]

Something they do in AION is put instance PVP on a timer, you can queue at a certain time, and only during that time period.
You're sure to enter that way without waiting forever.
If they did it say 1 time per hour like stated before, I'm sure the whole queue problem would be slightly alieviated.

[Buff_Archer]

I personally do not pvp in games simply because it requires specific gear and weapons and in some cases pvp zone only skills. drop all that and simply have two or more of groups going against each other using regular class skills and I'd love to give it a go.

No special gear means no grossly overpowered opponents who who win just because of it. Even playing field. That's what will get more interest.

This is actually one of the things SE got right when they came out with Frontlines (and if there was nothing people liked about it, we wouldn't have so many threads from people trying to get the few things that are so bad they overshadow all the good ones changed). FL is level synced to i80 and that puts us all on common footing. While there's gear that's 'bis' for FL, how someone plays matters so much more, than whether a piece of gear has DET or Spell Speed for example. Some i80 pieces from CT are even as good as, or better than, i120+ gear. The Morale boost only affects i70 PVP equipment to synch it up to i80 in FL which means someone can gear a lot of jobs for FL quickly with that set (which sells at discount store prices now).

As for PVP actions, the good thing is now they're all unlocked to start with and can simply be upgraded a bit. I'm a controller user so crossbar space is at a premium, and for that reason (and so I wouldn't have to remember which bar/button to swap to) I macro'd a lot of my PVP actions to go with the PVE equivalent, or with ones that synergize well, and that way it's intuitive where to find them. Here's one I wrote for Equanimity, which is an Instant cast skill like Surecast except it applies to spells cast during like a 15 second or so window:

/ac "Equanimity" <me>
/ac "Surecast" <me>

What that does is slot them in the same place, and if Equanimity is available, it uses that, if not, it uses Surecast. Which is the same priority I'd assign to using the skills if I couldn't macro them like this anyway. I have seperate PVP vs. PVE crossbars btw so my character isn't trying to use PVP skills in PVE and failing.

BTW I did not like PVP before I started Frontlines when it came out last summer.

[Lorielle]

I personally do not pvp in games simply because it requires specific gear and weapons and in some cases pvp zone only skills. drop all that and simply have two or more of groups going against each other using regular class skills and I'd love to give it a go.

No special gear means no grossly overpowered opponents who who win just because of it. Even playing field. That's what will get more interest.

What? You don't need to special gear for anything. Wolve's Den is where Morale plays a huge factor and all. But seeing most people play Slaughter/Secure, they abolished that to make the game fair. Everyone caps at i80. You can go in with your top notch gear and have at it. Again, the skills in PVP are not -mandatory- to use, they only -help-. You don't -need- to learn them. You'll do just fine without them. At that point it comes down to knowing when to go in and when to back off.

[Xoriam]

What? You don't need to special gear for anything. Wolve's Den is where Morale plays a huge factor and all. But seeing most people play Slaughter/Secure, they abolished that to make the game fair. Everyone caps at i80. You can go in with your top notch gear and have at it. Again, the skills in PVP are not -mandatory- to use, they only -help-. You don't -need- to learn them. You'll do just fine without them. At that point it comes down to knowing when to go in and when to back off.

pvp gear is pretty useless even in wolve's den even tbh.