Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Alright so let me ask you this since you feel FCoB is mundane and WoD isn't. Inwhat FCoB fights are mechanics reused? For every one you state I can guarantee I can prove you wrong. You been through FCoB so you should know all the fights right?

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you, I'm not trying to say FCOB isn't as good as WoD or vice versa, please stop putting implications in my mouth that I am not stating. What I am trying to state is the general idea of the battles in the coils rely on one major principle: organized memorization. Like others have mentioned, very little is actually put into player skill besides being able to be in spot ABC while mechanic XYZ is going on (ie: stack/dodge/placement mechanics), and so on so forth; which honestly if repeated and rehashed is the very definition of mundane and unimaginative.

snip

Again, I state again, I should probably add a third again, so thrice again, I am not--and neither is anyone else in this thread--asking for Coil to be nerfed and/or be made easier. No one in this thread is asking future content to be made easier than Coil content. No one. So please (and this is not directed at you in particular) can we please stop saying that people are saying to make it easier. People want challenges but some people want vastly different types of challenges other than the ones that are presented in the Coil (for future content, not for Coil content as that content is already solidified and they are not even going to consider making a completely new fight for existing content). My example was merely as is, an example, because believe it or not I'm not a developer I was merely trying to spark creative discussion on different ways we could be challenged and technically speaking have a more drastic reward/failure type mechanic is a precision mechanic more than anything, but I am completely disgressing here...

So my challenge to everyone reading this thread is this: If you could create a future content mechanic how would you do? Would you want the same "Divebomb" like move under a new name, a tether mechanic that might function slightly different than the last fight but basically is the same move under a different name? A big damage room-wide blast attack (which all the monsters have) move under a different name? I challenge you, think of something new, something that is not limited to a reliable internet connection and memorization. Can you come up with something new or can you only ridicule someone who is trying to offer new ways to play the game?

[StrejdaTom]

And how can I take this thread seriously when I read 10 times that coil is only about memorization and good internet connection from people who didn't even clear it? (Dont get me wrong, I am only in P4 in T13 yet)

[XionAvalonArcadia]

-snip-

So being AWARE to risky mechanics creates a skill-less fight. So please explain how you gathered all this from the lack of actual experience from these fights? DPS checks, positioning, raid awareness, mechanic awareness and performance and job responsibility are all aspects to raiding. How do you expect to earn a clear without being adept in this? The reason I am comparing this to your WoD examples are based on YOUR use of it. I can tell you have not gotten far through coil since you have yet to use any ACTUAL examples in FCoB. So let me inform you since you yield no experience to these turns.

Turn 10:
Trash: Trash that most people skip in a Metal Gear solid fashion. Pretty fun to watch.
Boss: Fight against an electric cat that requires everyone to be aware of their positioning on an ever shriking field (soft enrage). This fight will have mechanics for tank swaps and raid awareness for people to know when they are needed to participate in a mechanic and when they can not. Over all, simple fight to learn, 5 phases with every other phase adding a new mechanic.

Turn 11:
Trash: Requires to break into 2 groups of two to run a gauntlet. One being magic friendly the other being physical friendly.
Boss: Boss that has a fast mechanic to tank swap, creates a death field under itself to prevent moving through the body, and a field mechanic that cuts the field into portions ever so often. Add phase requires moving in sync and is a dps check. last phase similar to first but adds a mechanic that requires moving in sync and creates the fear due to server lag. Over all, easiest of turns but higher risk.

Turn 12:
Trash: Aint none
Boss: Pheonix, guess the theme of the fight. Phase 1 is bennu placement and stacking mechanic for groups, tank killer mechanic for swapping (Tank, Healer, Dps). Phase 2, rot mechanic(lol to those who never learned it in turn 2). Also a raid wide wipe/cleanse mechanic. Can be done a number of ways but still bennu placements as it happens. Add phase, kill in certain order during a room wide dmg attack that pulses every 15 seconds or so. Again dps check. Last phase, Rot mechanic and debuff managment mechanic. Requires raid awareness for a line mechanic that happens randomly and can be fatal is placed incorrectly. Over all, hate this fight. So much dmg and so much mana use. I play brd so kinda hate ballad. Love da foes.

Turn 13
Trash: Aint none
Boss: Big ole dragon, tank buster no swap. Line mechanic tied with puddle mechanic. 3 fold dmg mechanic that requires spreading and stacking correctly. Phase 2, debuff management and tank buster still. Add mechanic that requires tank awareness to eachothers distance. Phase 3 divebomb start. Divebombs consist of spread/stack mechanic from earlier in the fight WHILE dodging 2 dragons in unset paths. Awareness to outside arena for this one. Add phase, kill in certain order. Adds synergize with eachother so do let it happen. Twintania comes back, adds again. Big old flare attack. Last phase, ahk morns(A.K.A. lol tanks.) Tank stack/dmg managment. cds are highly managed in this phase. spread /stack mechanics and line/puddle mechanic. Both previous 2 have twisters on certain ppl to deal with for raid awareness. so 5 ahk morns and 2 gigaflares later get you the clear. Over all each phase shift has a "flare" mechanic for healer awareness. Fight is fun, brutal and so satisfying when complete. 15 minute long fight that makes and breaks groups.

FCoB overall summary: Hard to pug or static. Challenging to complete. Satisfying to conclude story. Still able to complete with proper management of important raid aspects.

In the end, Content isn't meant for everyone. Get over it. If it's too hard, then its too hard. I have seen this game grow from 1.0. The addition of the towers, ability to get the upgrade components and hunts outside of final coil have created a sense of entitlement. Do the fights, they are not the same as fights you have done. Find a group of 7 other like minded individuals. Form a time to do content, Bam, you made a static. The common theme of this thread is the difficulty of coil and ability to perform "easy" mechanics by people who have not completed the content when it was current. Its your fault you didn't have the iniative or drive. Now they added echo and nerfed content. Its still too hard? Lol, its a game. Some people are better than others, it happens. If you don't like it, Git imdaGud!

[KyrsIsley]

I'm not getting into a pissing match with you, I'm not trying to say FCOB isn't as good as WoD or vice versa, please stop putting implications in my mouth that I am not stating. What I am trying to state is the general idea of the battles in the coils rely on one major principle: organized memorization. Like others have mentioned, very little is actually put into player skill besides being able to be in spot ABC while mechanic XYZ is going on (ie: stack/dodge/placement mechanics), and so on so forth; which honestly if repeated and rehashed is the very definition of mundane and unimaginative.


Again, I state again, I should probably add a third again, so thrice again, I am not--and neither is anyone else in this thread--asking for Coil to be nerfed and/or be made easier. No one in this thread is asking future content to be made easier than Coil content. No one. So please (and this is not directed at you in particular) can we please stop saying that people are saying to make it easier. People want challenges but some people want vastly different types of challenges other than the ones that are presented in the Coil (for future content, not for Coil content as that content is already solidified and they are not even going to consider making a completely new fight for existing content). My example was merely as is, an example, because believe it or not I'm not a developer I was merely trying to spark creative discussion on different ways we could be challenged and technically speaking have a more drastic reward/failure type mechanic is a precision mechanic more than anything, but I am completely disgressing here...

So my challenge to everyone reading this thread is this: If you could create a future content mechanic how would you do? Would you want the same "Divebomb" like move under a new name, a tether mechanic that might function slightly different than the last fight but basically is the same move under a different name? A big damage room-wide blast attack (which all the monsters have) move under a different name? I challenge you, think of something new, something that is not limited to a reliable internet connection and memorization. Can you come up with something new or can you only ridicule someone who is trying to offer new ways to play the game?

Everything can and will become mundane eventually. Unless the boss evolves and gains new skills based on how players are handling the encounter, or has a infinite number of skills/combinations of skills, the encounter will become mundane. Tailoring a strategy for an encounter that is seemingly random and making it into a scripted fight with a finite number of predictable scenarios is precisely how people farm content efficiently.

[Gardes]

Again, I state again, I should probably add a third again, so thrice again, I am not--and neither is anyone else in this thread--asking for Coil to be nerfed and/or be made easier. No one in this thread is asking future content to be made easier than Coil content. No one. So please (and this is not directed at you in particular) can we please stop saying that people are saying to make it easier.

Actually, you are.

1) Simplify the number of mechanics to an easily memorable amount (players should not have to study like its a 100 question test) I would say no more than 4-5 mechanics
2) Slight increase in time between mechanic executions, as a pay off to keep the challenge alive, make the mechanics even less forgivable (as in you mess up, you die)

By its own nature, your suggestion no 1 already makes fights easier. No 2 is also guilty because less intervals between mechanics means you're suggesting to add more time in the fight just tanking and spanking. Making certain mechanics that was not instant death into one is also moot due to less mechanic interval because the healers will have less juggling to do and doing extra raises wouldn't be as hard as before, especially if your death doesn't affect anyone negatively immediately outside of dps loss. In the case that they do make your deaths kill others, the lot of you will be whining about team jump rope mechanic but oh wait! Most of you already are!

Lastly, fights like this would make it really easy for really good groups with high dps simply because they will down the boss much faster than the intended kill times and therefore they will encounter less mechanics (simplication: if the boss is intended to be a 10 min fight and it does one mechanic every 1 min, the party killing it at 10 will encounter 10 mechanics while parties that can down it at 7 will only encounter 7). If they implement punishments for dpsing a boss too fast by throwing more mechanics at your party randomly even faster as you dps it faster, people will complain yet again.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Actually, you are.



By its own nature, your suggestion no 1 already makes fights easier. No 2 is also guilty because less intervals between mechanics means you're suggesting to add more time in the fight just tanking and spanking. Making certain mechanics that was not instant death into one is also moot due to less mechanic interval because the healers will have less juggling to do and doing extra raises wouldn't be as hard as before, especially if your death doesn't affect anyone negatively immediately outside of dps loss. In the case that they do make your deaths kill others, the lot of you will be whining about team jump rope mechanic but oh wait! Most of you already are!

Lastly, fights like this would make it really easy for really good groups with high dps simply because they will down the boss much faster than the intended kill times and therefore they will encounter less mechanics (simplication: if the boss is intended to be a 10 min fight and it does one mechanic every 1 min, the party killing it at 10 will encounter 10 mechanics while parties that can down it at 7 will only encounter 7). If they implement punishments for dpsing a boss too fast by throwing more mechanics at your party randomly even faster as you dps it faster, people will complain yet again.

Something I would like to see is instead of mechanic on top of mechanic on top of mechanic all happening with an overlap effect where you are sometimes just running from Point A to Point B to Point C doing mechanics is this:


1) Simplify the number of mechanics to an easily memorable amount (players should not have to study like its a 100 question test) I would say no more than 4-5 mechanics
2) Slight increase in time between mechanic executions, as a pay off to keep the challenge alive, make the mechanics even less forgivable (as in you mess up, you die)

Again taken it out of context you can make anything sound like something else. I was making a suggestion but by removing the line I've added you are making it seems like I was asking for a Coil nerf. Also making less mechanics doesn't mean that it's easy, take for example again Titan EX (and I cannot stress this enough--when it was new content--not now when we are 50+ items levels higher). He only had around 4-5 mechanics:

1) Mountain Buster: healing/cd mechanic
2) Landslide/Plumes: dodge mechanic
3) Tumult: healing mechanic
4) Bombs: dodge mechanic
5) Upheavel: stack/placement mechanic

However during the time of its release those few mechanics were very unforgiving. You mess up, you die; no questions asked. Its just another form of challenging content however Coils don't really have that style of battle, its all mechanic and move on top of another, that one single mechanic might not kill you but because there is another mechanic already going off there is a good chance you will fail. Either way they are going to kill you however one is about precision and one is about "can you recover". Both are valid endgame styles, sadly they did not choose the former for the coils.

[Gardes]

Again taken it out of context you can make anything sound like something else. I was making a suggestion but by removing the line I've added you are making it seems like I was asking for a Coil nerf. Also making less mechanics doesn't mean that it's easy, take for example again Titan EX (and I cannot stress this enough--when it was new content--not now when we are 50+ items levels higher). He only had around 4-5 mechanics:

1) Mountain Buster: healing/cd mechanic
2) Landslide/Plumes: dodge mechanic
3) Tumult: healing mechanic
4) Bombs: dodge mechanic
5) Upheavel: stack/placement mechanic

However during the time of its release those few mechanics were very unforgiving. You mess up, you die; no questions asked. Its just another form of challenging content however Coils don't really have that style of battle, its all mechanic and move on top of another, that one single mechanic might not kill you but because there is another mechanic already going off there is a good chance you will fail. Either way they are going to kill you however one is about precision and one is about "can you recover". Both are valid endgame styles, sadly they did not choose the former for the coils.

Nice try on omitting things like gaols, adds, gravity puddle, heart dps check too, btw. Also forgetting that it all comes in the same predictable manner despite having harsh consequences for failing the mechanic and the fact that if certain roles fail out of the mechanics, your party is screwed. Or how despite t10-t12 is divided into multiple phases, they have about two phases each where it's the exact same with an extra mechanic thrown in.

Edit: Oh I forgot, did you remember how titan ex fight went? Non stop mechanic after mechanic after mechanic. What you're asking for, "bigger intervals of nothing happening" does not happen in titan ex! And they sometimes overlap!