Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[XionAvalonArcadia]

Also if the only incentive to a particular content is the gear you get at the end, then the content is poorly designed. As an example, there are little to no rewards to playing a game such as league of legends, yet millions of players plays it.

So millions of people play a competetive Free to play game that boasts the worst community toxicity to date against a subscription MMO that already failed once and is growing in its second iteration?

If you believe this, you should already have cleared or be attempting to clear Savage Coil. Just like you say, it's Yoshi's CHALLENGE that will test your endurance like no other! You'll be wiping for hours and hours. It's specifically for those whom play the game looking for a challenge. Right?

Me? I just want to clear turn 9 for to sole purpose of progressing. And I don't want to have to give up my life outside the game to do it.

I guess having a group of people that have lives come together for 6-8 hours a week to perform the fight in a game you say is too one directional or too easy is having no life. You say that yet things like speed runs or FPS tournaments have no sheen because the euphoria of competition and success holds no gain? I'v completed Final coil for my goals, proceed to learn what happened to bahamut after the calamity and get the lootz. I am content with the games level of challenge and can't wait for Alexander to experience even more fights. Savage mode is on my list but because it doesn't yield different loot or story, I am not putting it on the top of my list. People complain about difficulty and monoteny of content they struggle on because they have memories of goldfish. If you can't take on something new, when it is current, learn it and proceed on, how exactly is struggling on old content progression? Call me elitest but why complain about something you can't complete when it is not REQUIRED to access new stuff. If it IS REQUIRED then learn it and do it. Stop being entitlted.

XionAvalonArcadia, please do not quote me and change my words, if you must, use "snip" or a blank quotes, the very fact that you took the time to change my words into something that I never said just shows how mature and willing you are to actually listen to very valid problems that this game will incur in the long haul. Let me make it a bit clearer for you, this game offers ONE challenge: organized memorization.

Like many people are stating the ONLY way to make the game more challenging is to change it before it becomes even more of a problem. What I mean is that the very function of endgame mechanics need to vary up, like my Titan EX example, it was paced well and was challenging at the time of its release, however because the game so far has only been able to deliver this one challenge to the players in the endgame raids. Honestly Cerberus was one of the best mechanics ever put into this game as it was new and refreshing from the same old stuff we have been doing since the first Primal battle. If they continue to develop content that only offers this kind of gameplay there are only a couple ways they can make it more challenging:

1) Make mechanics stack on top of each other or have slight overlaps requiring the perfect precision in order to complete (from the first EX Primal to Bahamut Prime we have seen this as a factor as mechanics are getting closer and closer to one another)
2) Make more dodge/stack mechanics appear in a single battle (which we have also seen from the first EX Primal to Bahamut Prime)


Side Note: Frankly I think the Dreadwyrm gear is the worst gear design this game has put out save for the Magic DPS Soldiery Tomestone gear. So no I do not see someone running around with "shiny" gear and go "OMG MUST HAVE IT AND I DONT WANT TO BE CHALLENGED TO GET IT!" I want a challenge, however I don't want "Final Fantasy XIV: Rock Band: Can You Hit All The Notes Edition" which if change does not happen is where it will go.

Its funny you say that when you compare different content that requires very little attention to detail to do to fights that have more risk/reward. You talk about Cerberus as if it is something new or different because the fight offers spikes of dmg to beat the boss. What if I told you you don't get a sense of entitlement when it allows recoverable fights to be the statis quo? How is FCoB rockband and WoD is the gods end game hardcore fight? People slide by with pathetic dps beucase the fight ALLOWS you to. People don't LEARN their roles when their is no risk to it. No one said you had to like the appearance of the gear, but the stats are what you want. The ability to say, "I have completed this." If not then why do the fights in the first place? If their isn't anything IN FCoB then why step foot in it? You want something but don't want to go through the work to get it. Isn't that the definition of entitlement?

I hope you're being ironic, but if you're really trying to prove a point that you have the entire fight memorized like so.. You're just helping US make the point that perhaps the fight mechanics need an overhaul

This would be true if the content wasn't almost a year old. Because people refuse to learn, you feel you deserve something for applying the time.

You really don't even have to remember all of that. Just key things like not placing a meteor by another meteor or where to go for DBs. I don't see why everyone is saying you have to memorize or study a fight. You can watch/read a guide and get the gist of it and the PRACTICE the fight and you'll eventually clear with like minded people.

You are right, say that 9 months ago and earn yourself some gear. Its funny people complain about learning stuff AFTER it has been Pugicized.

[Stanelis]

So millions of people play a competetive Free to play game that boasts the worst community toxicity to date against a subscription MMO that already failed once and is growing in its second iteration?

Yeah exactly. People play lol even though the community is toxic, don't you find that funny ? (it's not much better on FFXIV actually)

Also, even though SE gives you the number of FFXIV's account, they don't give you the actual number of subscribers. Based on the number of viewers on twitch FFXIV is currently faring roughly as well as TESO (also a F2P game).

[OMEGA_HACK]

snip

Again you are only seeing the immediate and are not seeing ahead of you. Stop and think a bit. Look past more than two feet in front of your nose. I'm not saying that Cerberus is the end all be all. I am saying if offered a variety that is needed in Endgame, albeit it is easy to clear as the 24-man content for whatever reason was geared to be easier (I honestly had hoped it would be more along the lines of Dynamis in XI where it required more teamwork) but I was using it merely as an example of something that is different than stack/dodge/placement type mechanics. Could they make Cerberus extremely hard without adding any other mechanics? Yes absolutely, want to know how? They could beef up the amount of adds inside the belly as well as increasing their damage, they could make it where all the lightning balls that drop, drop on all players making them have to stack to avoid multiple-orb death, they could reduce the "casting" time for Cerberus's charge attack.

If you really think content that is easy cannot be made harder without adding new mechanics I personally don't want to hold a conversation with you anymore, as there are things called values at play when making a game. Just like they can give us Echo (a value buff increase for the player) they could easily make easier content much harder with tweaking the values. So don't patronize me by saying because I want Cerberus like mechanics it means I want easy content. I want the mechanics of cerberus not the difficulty. I want more ENGAGING mechanics, to make the fight feel unique, I don't want copy/pasta mechanics rehashed from older fights, I want truly new stuff. Is that so much to ask the development team? Or are you satisfied with where the game is heading? Which if they continue the trend means we will be primarily be looking at doing organized memorization games (like in Rock Band where in order to be good you develop memory on what buttons to push next; on the expert modes anyway)

Other note, I personally don't care for the stats of the FCOB either, they are good but not all them are the best, and this game doesn't require FCOB gear for any content save for itself...which also isn't required to beat. So no, I personally don't care at all in any way shape or form about the gear from FCOB. I just want fun challenging content, not mundane memory games and hoping the rest of the group plays along.

[XionAvalonArcadia]

Alright so let me ask you this since you feel FCoB is mundane and WoD isn't. Inwhat FCoB fights are mechanics reused? For every one you state I can guarantee I can prove you wrong. You been through FCoB so you should know all the fights right?

[Aureyo]

Snip...

Maybe one should finish said content before passing so much judgement on it.

[StrejdaTom]

Snip

So you think that adding more adds and boosting dps of boss and adds is a better way of improving difficulty than adding more mechanics? Except a few mechanics CT 1 - 3 only embraces zombie thinking and facerolling of content and it is the main reason why people cry that steps of faith trial is too hard.

Instead of asking to nerf every content that has a bit more mechanics, actually trying to learn them would be better. Sorry, but I really wouldn't look forward to a bosses with 2 aoes and lalaloads of adds and dps, that is not a difficulty, that is a stat play (no need for skill, just gear).

Edit: The days when bosses had no skills and only high dps and enough hp for us to stand there 20 minutes and DPS it are over. If I wanted dumb raid fights I would stay at Lineage II, I like FFXIV for the way raids are done. It could be better but dumbing them down is not a way.

[KyrsIsley]

Yes I have all the mechanics are dodge XYZ telegraphed attack or (spread to dodge other people's AoE targeted attack on them) or stack on each other or in a particular way to mitigate/survive XYZ attack. Care to give an example where one of those fights don't utilize those same style mechanics?

A fight cannot be completely random. The last phase in T11 could give you a glimpse of what would happen if a fight is completely random. During progression, groups often prayed for a set of tethers to be on the tanks, because this made that specific cycle of "dodging" significantly easier. If this were the case for the last boss of the end game dungeon, the difference between world 1st and world 2nd could have been completely based on RNG. One group could potentially have cleared the content first without fully knowing and conquering every aspect of the fight.

Even with the current "scripted" fights, there is plenty of RNG involved. You can tell the difference between a well coordinated group and a disorganized group by how well they handle that RNG.

In T10, tethers and charges are randomized. When you get heat lightning and a charge, not having to tank swap makes the mechanic significantly easier. When you get both the tether and the charge, it is easier to deal with that when both melee are free to split the tether damage, then the ranged and the OT split the damage on the charge.

In T11, the last phase can be either smooth sailing or a PITA depending on who gets the tether and which direction the nerve gas faces. These factors barely make a difference for a well coordinated group, but often cause wipes for a disorganized group, because a tethered couple went opposite directions from each other, or the two sets of tethered people ran into each other.

In T12, during phase 2, you can have the red fire on the opposite end of the room, forcing the BRD to cover a lot of distance in a short period of time resulting in a higher chance of not catching it on time or being caught in the tank's Revelation. In the last phase, the positioning of the fountain and the randomness of who gets the dives is a huge factor for a disorganized group.

In T13, flare stars often cause a group to have to do some drastic shuffling, especially when you get 4 flare stars on someone who already has 2 stacks on the wave before megaflare hits. In the last phase, when one person is down, the RNG can sometimes force a diamond on the tank. This forces the tank to gather and split the damage with the rest of the group, and then move out quickly so tempest won't blast the group away.

All these are examples where RNG already exists in current fights and is often overlooked or labeled as "team jump rope". But a well organized group is more than capable of dealing with these chaotic moments while others who can barely handle RNG in such small doses would wipe and blame the repetitiveness of team jump rope.

If a person cannot dodge something or get to a position knowing a mechanic is coming, I don't believe reacting to such mechanic without advanced warning/knowledge is going to be any easier. RNG can be brutal at times, but you didn't wipe because RNG "screwed" you, you wiped because you weren't good enough to handle the RNG. People in top tier raiding guilds/FCs are better because they are ready for the worst case that RNG can give them.

[Ayrie]

Alright so let me ask you this since you feel FCoB is mundane and WoD isn't. Inwhat FCoB fights are mechanics reused? For every one you state I can guarantee I can prove you wrong. You been through FCoB so you should know all the fights right?

Just because I can say it with a trollish grin: dive bombs. Those perky things... It is like all dragons do it!

But there are a lot of interesting mechanics and plays on old mechanics in final coil. It does feel like a new fight, even if not EVERYTHING is brand new.

[XionAvalonArcadia]

Just because I can say it with a trollish grin: dive bombs. Those perky things... It is like all dragons do it!

But there are a lot of interesting mechanics and plays on old mechanics in final coil. It does feel like a new fight, even if not EVERYTHING is brand new.

Yea but it is kinda a way to "prepare" you for harder divebombs. I mean look at the opening video. Bahamut divebombed over eorzea. But what you didn't see was the megaflare dives he did DURING that. But yea, you can't really cricitize certain things that are changed since its a way of preparing you for the next version of it. t5 divebombs you move when the mark appears. T9 you move then it Disappears. Same thing, different flavor.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

Yea but it is kinda a way to "prepare" you for harder divebombs. I mean look at the opening video. Bahamut divebombed over eorzea. But what you didn't see was the megaflare dives he did DURING that. But yea, you can't really cricitize certain things that are changed since its a way of preparing you for the next version of it. t5 divebombs you move when the mark appears. T9 you move then it Disappears. Same thing, different flavor.

Also, one could very well consider that the 'signature move' of the Dreadwyrm's closest minions, one that even he himself uses. That's a case of careful theming.