Why I have no interest in Coils more specifically, T9.

[siverstorm]

But they are on Duty Finder now, just like World of Darkness and Keeper of the Lake. So why shouldn't we expect the difficulty to remain consistent with other content on Duty Finder? Do you see the word (Hardcore) next to the area names in the opening cinematic for Coil Turns? The text in-game makes no effort to distinguish the mechanical difficulty between "Crystal Tower" raid or "Binding Coil" raids.

The fact toxic elitists like to treat those who haven't cleared T5/T9 with contempt or condescendingly claim Coil is "easy" only makes this much worse.

I'm gonna regret getting involved in this silly thread again but....

By that logic why isn't titan hm held at the same difficulty as cape westwind or chimera? All level 50 content?

There are ilvl requirements tied to most post-50 content. The raid content with no ilvl requirement is also locked behind full-party requirement to queue.

Fun fact, WoD has an i90 requirement and, lo and behold, so does turn 6. Difficulty might be subjective but for the most part with nerfs/echo on SCoB I'd consider them roughly equivalent. We might treat ilvl as irrelevant when people talk about how geared they are (skill > gear) but you could still use the DF ilvl requirements as a rough retrospect on the difficulty curve of the content in DF. If you feel that you should be able to faceroll everything at minimum ilvl then you really need to re-evaluate what you want out of ffxiv combat, and by extension mmo combat.

It kinda feels like you're dismissing everyone as a "toxic elitist" if they're able to clear content though. Most of the people in here who have cleared have said it time and time again that it required weeks of learning and wiping in their static and never really outright said "it's easy we just died a lot to figure it out". Sure, I could ~say~ t13 is easy to me now because I know how to perform the mechanics. Was it "easy" on the first night in there? Absolutely not. It's not like the guilds that cleared it in the first two weeks oneshot it on their first attempts. Of course I won't dismiss the fact that truly toxic players exist,

It sounds like you want an MMO with no content that's even remotely challenging? They did say they were going to make two versions of Alexander, so I hope the easier one at least caters to what you were expecting. They did also say there would still be a level of difficulty with the easier version but we won't know exactly how much of a comparison it'll be until expac.

Over time with the EX primals which also required a static to clear for the first 3-6 months (or longer) of their life, SCOB and FCOB which require not only clearing T5, but also having a static, the separation between raiding community and everyone else has grown. Coil gear drops have consistently been the best in slot and highest ilvl in the game further emphasizing the difference between haves and have nots.

Personally, I hope that the 3.0 expansion addresses some of these issues. having a normal mode version of the raid content - without the gear drops - would go a long way to fixing things, and that is something that has been confirmed in 3.0.

I'm not going to comment on your opinions on content requiring a static/loot lockouts, it's a fairly common MMO gamestyle and you don't agree with it. I do want to clarify something in your post. I also agree with your last statement and hope that having the normal and hard mode raid content alleviates some of the community negativity.

1st: EX primals did not require a static. Back in 2.1 I have been in many successful pug parties and many failed parties. Some of the later EX's were either significantly more difficult for pugs (e.g. Mog or Ramuh ex) or much less harsher (e.g. shiva ex). I also cleared titan hm back when it was the wall in 2.0 and I'm on considerably a mid-pop server. Fairly healthy raiding population, some groups that outshine others, exceptionally skilled players around, but it's no "Gilgamesh".

2nd: Every tier has had equivalent ilvl tome gear, and in SCoB and FCoB tiers they even released weapons at the exact same ilvl as the hardest fight both tiers. Your argument literally only holds for 2.1 when t5 was the only i95 weapon. BiS is always a mix of gear, hell most Bard BiS sheets involve the bloody i120 WoD chestpiece.
They made an attempt to have a gear progression with the "sands of time"/"carbontwine" items. Yeah it was only available to raiders at the start, but then they opened the floodgates via the towers and hunts. If you had a problem with that then I don't really know what to tell ya.

[Kosmos992k]

I'm not going to comment on your opinions on content requiring a static/loot lockouts, it's a fairly common MMO gamestyle and you don't agree with it. I do want to clarify something in your post. I also agree with your last statement and hope that having the normal and hard mode raid content alleviates some of the community negativity.

I know it's common, but the implementation in FFXIV is needlesly divisive - IMHO. Statics don't suit my schedule, so I'm not worried personally, but I see the divisions among players. Division and negativity (from both parts of the divided community) are, IMHO, a consequence of the way raid content is implemented within FFXIV.

1st: EX primals did not require a static. Back in 2.1 I have been in many successful pug parties and many failed parties. Some of the later EX's were either significantly more difficult for pugs (e.g. Mog or Ramuh ex) or much less harsher (e.g. shiva ex). I also cleared titan hm back when it was the wall in 2.0 and I'm on considerably a mid-pop server. Fairly healthy raiding population, some groups that outshine others, exceptionally skilled players around, but it's no "Gilgamesh".

I should have clarified, the game did not require you to be in a static, however the difficulty of the encounter required a degree of coordination and familiarity with each other that could only really be achieved by a static, as did the repeated wipes while the fight was learned. the requirement for a static was implicit, and really an extension of the static teams that grew up running Coil.

2nd: Every tier has had equivalent ilvl tome gear, and in SCoB and FCoB tiers they even released weapons at the exact same ilvl as the hardest fight both tiers. Your argument literally only holds for 2.1 when t5 was the only i95 weapon. BiS is always a mix of gear, hell most Bard BiS sheets involve the bloody i120 WoD chestpiece.
They made an attempt to have a gear progression with the "sands of time"/"carbontwine" items. Yeah it was only available to raiders at the start, but then they opened the floodgates via the towers and hunts.

Indeed, that second route to high ilvl gear was not open during the initial 3 months of SCOB or FCOB, and only opened up with the subsequent patch. don't get me started on the hunt debacle, I don't really like the fact that they allowed casual players to upgrade their gear to Coil equivalent by zerg rushing targets that die in seconds. Having oil/sand or carboncoat/twine available through ST/WoD and not hunts would have been perfectly sufficient for the 1st easing of the requirements to augment gear, followed by the hunt based zerg rush 6 months after the initial drop of the coil content.

See, although I am critical of the implementation of the raids, it's not because I want the raids to be faceroll easy, nor is it because I think everyone should get gear handed to them like candy. I'm critical of the system because of the divisions it has caused, and because there were many players who might have stepped up into raiding with the original coil, but could not find a place in a static, and therefore did not take that step. The difficulty isn't really the issue IMHO.

[LunaHoshino]

1st: EX primals did not require a static. Back in 2.1 I have been in many successful pug parties and many failed parties. Some of the later EX's were either significantly more difficult for pugs (e.g. Mog or Ramuh ex) or much less harsher (e.g. shiva ex).

Ironically, Mog EX and Ramuh EX were my two EX Primal kills that were 100% PUGed. They were more difficult and took some practice, but they can absolutely be cleared by a PUG group who is willing to put in the time and effort to learn them. The group just needs to not disband after wipes and learn from their mistakes.

[Zohar_Lahar]

It kinda feels like you're dismissing everyone as a "toxic elitist" if they're able to clear content though. Most of the people in here who have cleared have said it time and time again that it required weeks of learning and wiping in their static and never really outright said "it's easy we just died a lot to figure it out". Sure, I could ~say~ t13 is easy to me now because I know how to perform the mechanics. Was it "easy" on the first night in there? Absolutely not. It's not like the guilds that cleared it in the first two weeks oneshot it on their first attempts. Of course I won't dismiss the fact that truly toxic players exist,.

The Toxic elistis are the ones that are belittling people for having not cleared T5 by now, crying that T6-8 are "easy" after 2.41 despite T5 still gating many, and then people suddenly acting like gearing up FCOB will be super casual now that it is on Duty Finder - despite T9 still being in the way, and therefore implying anyone not past by now is a bad person.

[Ayrie]

The Toxic elistis are the ones that are belittling people for having not cleared T5 by now, crying that T6-8 are "easy" after 2.41 despite T5 still gating many, and then people suddenly acting like gearing up FCOB will be super casual now that it is on Duty Finder - despite T9 still being in the way, and therefore implying anyone not past by now is a bad person.

They're probably not belittling anyone because they're working on FCOB. There are a few outliers who will rub their shiny badge in your face, sure.

But what is the purpose of fussing about gatekeepers? You can't clear them in the forums. Take some initiative to make a PF group. You'll find people you can enjoy playing with... and it may lead to more consistent running with them... or even making friends.

That is how a static starts. Not fussing for carries through gates. I've never seen a T5 or T9 carry in PF for that special person.

[ClaireAbigail]

The Toxic elistist.

Everytime you say toxic and elitist, it makes me wanna log in league of legends, pick teemo and feed the other team.


How about this: we(people who raids) have our content. You(people who doesn't raid) have your own. Don't whine about our content and we won't whine about yours . Leave ours alone and we will leave yours alone. Stop asking SE to make our content easier and we won't even think twice asking se to make your content harder! I think that's a fair deal

Raiding is not for everyone...there's crafting....gathering....leveling other classes....rping...relic weapons....you know! This game offers a variety of content for the raid inept people

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that you(generalization) can't beat this turn or that turn. I'm not saying coil is easy. All I'm saying is leave our "fun" alone. Don't beg se to change it to cater to your needs because it's too hard. As a raider, I LOVE challenges...it would be unfair if you take that away from us just because you don't wanna put the time and effort like we did in final coil. If it's old content, fine whatever add echo but don't make it a shadow of its former self like what se did to t6-8

[AlexionSkylark]

snip

That attitude was just right down assholery.

Now, with that said, people saying they want the content to be easier instead of THEM THEMSELVES getting better to beat it is just as much assholery

[ClaireAbigail]

That attitude was just right down assholery.

Now, with that said, people saying they want the content to be easier instead of THEM THEMSELVES getting better to beat it is just as much assholery

It is what it is. What you call attitude is what I call being defensive. Some people here who doesn't raid came here guns blazing and quickly call the ones who raid "toxic". Everyone needs to wake up and smell the flowers. There's alot of content here and unless you don't have a job or school, you won't be able to do ALL of them. With that being said, just because you can't do X content, it doesn't mean you'll come whining here begging se to NERF the content. Find me someone with all zetas, 4 star crafter, all dreadwyrm, can fish and gather everything with a personal mansion, lvl 20 Chocobo while having a full time job or school had zero help from RMT. If you do that I'll quit raiding.

[Zohar_Lahar]

It is what it is. What you call attitude is what I call being defensive. Some people here who doesn't raid came here guns blazing and quickly call the ones who raid "toxic". Everyone needs to wake up and smell the flowers. There's alot of content here and unless you don't have a job or school, you won't be able to do ALL of them. With that being said, just because you can't do X content, it doesn't mean you'll come whining here begging se to NERF the content. Find me someone with all zetas, 4 star crafter, all dreadwyrm, can fish and gather everything with a personal mansion, lvl 20 Chocobo while having a full time job or school had zero help from RMT. If you do that I'll quit raiding.

I wouldn't ask them to nerf if people weren't acting like we're horrible players for having not cleared it by now. Also, saying Coil isn't for everyone sends mixed signals when others saying it is "easy" content.

[StrejdaTom]

I wouldn't ask them to nerf if people weren't acting like we're horrible players for having not cleared it by now. Also, saying Coil isn't for everyone sends mixed signals when others saying it is "easy" content.

Nerfing it to the ground and then facerolling it wont make you any better than not clearing it at all.
Just do what you enjoy and dont care about what people say. And you can always make party of friends or FC mates to try to do it, or wait for example for Heavensward, overgear yourself and faceroll it without nerfing it.