New claim system, the death of open world content?

[Zacko]

I left out the other half of the quote because I didn't think it would really fit with this discussion, but here's your answer:

I think it's obvious that we will be able to kill multiple mobs simultaneously to gain exp after this update.

Translations courtesy of Reinheart

Edit: Hmm, I might be looking too far into this though. It might just be the claim bug that they're fixing and not less HP = less EXP bug. I hope it's the latter.

I don't think it has anything to do with claiming more than one mob at same time
It's just a bug when you hit a mob as soon as it popped...it doesn't always show as claimed (so you actually take down some HP before you claim it), which lowers your SP from that mob. It happens sometimes, but not too often, might be something to do with lag I don't know.

At least that's what i understood from translation lol

But I hope they let us claim more than one mob in the future.

[Tigercub]

It they think the answer to all FF14 content is to instance everything, then i'll happily go play a HUB MMO. Where you at Vindictus!?

I don't want it to be 100% FF11, but if all content is us being teleported to our own private area, then screw that. It's sad enough we have to be teleported to the Grand Company HQ (and Wards), so annoying.

Yeah, I really don't understand the trend with making open world MMOs into battle.net style small party multiplayer games. Instancing is fine, but instancing almost all relevant content is a massive step backwards. It seems to be an issue to do with self entitlement regarding loot; people don't want competition, but in removing all competition you're removing a great deal of your contact with other people, and you're also removing your own influence on the world. A world without influence is a dead one.

Some MMOs seriously begin to remind me of stripper booths. Everyone gets their own private room to stroke themselves.

[MeowyWowie]

Some MMOs seriously begin to remind me of stripper booths. Everyone gets their own private room to stroke themselves.

lol well said.

[Reinheart]

I don't think it has anything to do with claiming more than one mob at same time
It's just a bug when you hit a mob as soon as it popped...it doesn't always show as claimed (so you actually take down some HP before you claim it), which lowers your SP from that mob. It happens sometimes, but not too often, might be something to do with lag I don't know.

At least that's what i understood from translation lol

But I hope they let us claim more than one mob in the future.

You're correct the translation only talks about XP loss from the mob that just spawned and hit and still showing yellow when it should of been red. But if you combine that with what YoshiP said in the poll.

9. If the current target claiming system were done away with, would you be in favor of a system that rewards skill, experience, and loot only to the party that first deals damage to an enemy? Or would you be in favor of skill, experience, and loot being distributed amongst all parties that contributed to an enemy's defeat?

I'm kicking myself for not having put in a third option combining the other two: Skill and experience going to all parties, and loot going to only the first party to deal damage to an enemy.

Only question I got for this one is say you used AOE to claim 5 mobs, and you're the initial attacker but spending like 2 minutes on 1 mob would that still allow this first attacker to be able get the loot. What if someone came and didn't know (even though mob might of been attacking the player already) that it was already hit first by this guy that used the AOE.
It needs some type of system when the mob you're fighting isn't the main target or hasn't been touched after x amount of time to release the reward/loot bonus. But then again what if the AOE attack was like DOT spell which keeps on dealing DOT on the mob... then what? lol

[Finuve]

that whole piece of info has me scared that endgame for FFXIV will become overinstanced, I already plan on playing PSO2 I dont need 2 hub world MMOs

[Seikninkuru]

I don't see anything wrong with the current system other than it limiting you to only claiming one mob/group at a time... This makes no sense.

[MeowyWowie]

I don't see anything wrong with the current system other than it limiting you to only claiming one mob/group at a time... This makes no sense.

I agree. If we were given the option of choosing to keep the current system but improving it I think the results would have been vastly different. I fear it may be too late now though

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I don't understand how this solves anything. People will still fight for the initial claim to be eligible for drops.

In the Players Poll the 2nd, we were asked the following question:



Following the poll results, Yoshi said he neglected to add a third option:



Source:

Why were we not asked if we'd prefer keeping the current system but improving it? It's as if Yoshi assumed that this is what we wanted and made up his mind before even asking this question. Why even put the "If" at the beginning?

The problems I see with the new claim system:

NMs and similar open world content:

I see 2 new problems arising from this change, and I don't see it solving any of the current problems.

First: Lack of challenge and/or more difficult to balance content:
This is self explanatory. If anyone and everyone is able to engage any given mob, balancing would be impossible. No content would be considered difficult as you could just throw countless bodies at it until it's dead.

Second: Player griefing:
Here's an example:
Fafnir pops and 2 rival linkshells are competing with one another. The competition for "claiming" is still there because of how drops work, so bots are still very likely. However, we're met with yet another problem on top of the one that already existed.

Fafnir has a special AoE move called Spike Flail, which is triggered when hate is pulled from behind. This ability has the potential to completely wipe an entire party. Linkshell A claims fafnir, and Linkshell B (knowing they won't get any loot unless they have the initial "claim") begins attacking Fafnir from the rear for the sole purpose of triggering this attack. What ensues is a constant MPK battle between the 2 linkshells which could have been completely avoided with a real claim system.

This will likely end up forcing SE to make all Open World content just simple "tank & spank" BS.

EXP grind parties and EXP exploits:

At the moment we're unsure how EXP will be rewarded with this new system. Here are two possibilities that I can think of, and their flaws:

Equal EXP, not affected by the number of people helping outside of the "original claim" party:

Let's say we're in a party of 6 people and we're fighting a raptor and a party of 3 people comes and helps us kill our raptor. The SP we get in our 6 man party is not influenced at all by the party helping us, our SP formula follows the same rule as it does now. Likewise for the assisting party. Sounds great right?

The problem is that this system is heavily exploitable. Our party of 6 R40 players are fighting the same raptor, but this time a R10 person comes by, casts 1 spell, and lets us finish the mob off. The lower rank players gets a massive amount of EXP for no effort whatsoever.

End result: Power-leveling will run rampant, worse than it is now.

EXP affected by all additional players attacking:

Here's the opposite end of the spectrum. For every extra player attacking, the total EXP rewarded is reduced for all players participating in battle. This can quickly lead to griefing as competition for EXP mobs gets larger and larger.

If this new system is supposed to counter the EXP mob competition it seems futile. A better solution would be increasing the mob count and respawn timers so that more EXP parties can be supported per camp.

Overall, I'm open to new things. I know this system works in other games. But correct me if I'm wrong, and I very well may be, but aren't these games all quested based leveling and highly instanced?

I can't see FFXIV turning into a heavily quest based progression game and I'd hate to see challenging open world content become a thing of the past. I just can't see the reasoning behind this decision. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this for me?

Please forgive me if some of my points are difficult to understand. I kinda just rushed through this post but I think the main message is there. Discuss.

I honestly don't agree with anything you mentioned in here, I understand some of the points but I am 100% for the new claiming system because all the things your mentioned I find to not be a problem with some tweaking, which you know they plan to have a balance to it to some extent. Also they already said most of the big end game content will mostly be instanced in some form or another. I hate the current target system because its too plain and ordinary and I am playing a new MMO I want to see something that isn't like every other MMO. I guess I just more open minded with FFXIV than most people are, but then again most complainers on here want FFXI +3 and not a new game at all.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I don't have a problem with istanced content, i welcome it. The game sure need open content too, but in my point of view, content difficulty should be inside the fight itself, not the claiming. Sure you didn't forgot Fafnir being a bot war, and that's wrong.
But i bet a lot of people didn't care of botting before :||

[MeowyWowie]

I honestly don't agree with anything you mentioned in here, I understand some of the points but I am 100% for the new claiming system because all the things your mentioned I find to not be a problem with some tweaking, which you know they plan to have a balance to it to some extent. Also they already said most of the big end game content will mostly be instanced in some form or another. I hate the current target system because its too plain and ordinary and I am playing a new MMO I want to see something that isn't like every other MMO. I guess I just more open minded with FFXIV than most people are, but then again most complainers on here want FFXI +3 and not a new game at all.

Please don't misunderstand. I like change too, and I'm not asking for FFXI-2/3/4/whatever. Although if the game does resemble any other game on the market, it should be its predecessor, in my opinion. But that's besides the point.

My question is what makes this system better than the current one? It seems with this system, all of the good content would have to be instanced. I like a game to have instanced content, but all of it? I think they're shooting themselves in the foot with this.

The game should have a healthy balance of instanced and open content, even if the majority is instanced. But the way things are looking, I'm betting 90%+ of the worthwhile content will be instanced, something I am not a big fan of.