Sword AND Board: Looking at Paladin in a different light

[Ashkendor]

I'm not saying these abilities should be changed, it's fine for what we've done so far I just hope Heavensward will add something to spice up PLDs game play.

I'm definitely looking forward to what the expansion will bring. ^^

[TouchandFeel]

That goes back to what I said about you either being in SwO or ShO, you rarely swap constantly in a rotation which is what some people are trying to say PLDs should do more often.

Sigh ... That is not what I was saying, I even reiterated that multiple times in response to others as well as directly to you. I stated that Oath swapping is a good thing and should happen when done intelligently and at appropriate times, not just bouncing around between Oaths just because, which is what you seem to keep interpreting what I say as.
Constant swapping, no not at all. Swapping during specific situations in specific fights, such as lulls or spikes in incoming damage, then yes.
If you can stay in SwO for an entire fight, then great do that. However that is not always the case due to things like healers not being able to keep up or dps being bad at managing their own agro generation. However it is often the case, at least IMO where I don't need to be in ShO all the time and so I may just drop ShO or swap to SwO depending on the situation in the fight, how the healer is doing and what I have available for cooldowns. As soon as I notice that they healer is falling behind on keeping my HP up, ShO is back on.
So its not just a constant back and forth just to Oath swap, it is appraising situations on the fly and adjusting to try to maximize my contribution to the fight. If I know a fight well, I can plan swaps accordingly and already be prepared.

And again I will say the initial post was intended mainly for the many players that I see that just sit in ShO all the time and pretty much just Halone combo spam and to bring to their attention the existence of Oath swapping and ways that it can be used, not so much for those that are already familiar with it and have decided when and how they want to use it.

[Wintersandman]

snip.

And I guess the majority of the people don't feel like this makes Paladin anymore engaging. I have swapped on specific fights like you mention but it is still the same 1,2,3 CoS, SW, with the occasional shield swipe when agro is enough.

[TouchandFeel]

Your personal feelings on the matter plus a few others on the forums, does not the majority make.
Nor am I saying that the majority of people should feel or align themselves with my opinion.
I simply provided an option for something more to do that may increase your enjoyment of the job, that I feel makes it more complex and fun.
However if you have already made up your mind and decided something is boring, chances are you will stick to that decision no matter the circumstance.

Besides, the sort of its just "xyz and repeat ad nauseam" can pretty much apply to any class in this game and whether or not that xyz is"fun" is entirely subjective.

For example people say that WAR is more fun because of it having more combos to accomplish things, where I could respond that WAR is boring because all those combos to do things just feels like unnecessary busy work. See subjective. Neither opinion invalidates the other.

To you it isn't fun, to others it may be. Should people do it and try it out? Yes, but with anything as subjective as "is it fun", your mileage may vary.

Edit: Actually if you wanted to go into semantics of majority opinion, going back through the thread and tallying the number of likes and posts in agreement vs. opposing what I have said would actually put the " majority" with agreeing with me, so I feel we should refrain from "my opinion on subjective stuff is right and you are wrong", " my opinion = everyone's opinion" "what I think/feel is what everyone else should think/feel" type of arguments.

[Wintersandman]

Tries to put words in someone else's mouth.

I never said it wasn't fun or enjoyable. I said engaging which are too completely different things and of course you may interpret it as you like. If you could get decimals into wait timers you could make Paladin a macro for the play style. The rudimentary job is just that simple. You could even macro your oGCD abilities into that one macro so they get used every time they are up. So then all you would be doing is macro + cooldowns. Yeah you could do warrior or other classes the same way but you would break the combo more often than not. A paladin macro for 1,2,3 could be easily done on almost every encounter as more often than not you have 7.5 seconds in between major dodge-able events (Minus add/dungeon trash).

So instead of interpreting as Paladin isn't fun. It's not that. Paladin is a simplified version of tanking which from most people I have seen state they would like to see more variety/flavor.

[Xenosan]

Leave em at 1,2,3 combo.. that's fine with me.. if there's more debuffs, buffs, or Dots to manage while I do (OGCD?).

In FFTactics Knights had Rend actions, which were pretty much the most crippling/cheesing abilities in the game (have all gun users use Knight as subjob, on first turn just 'rend weapon' all da baddies).

I'm optimistic though, with the current situation with PLD, I'll take anything! Which is a good thing.. right.. ._.;

[TouchandFeel]

FFS, I can't believe you are making me do this.

engaging
[en-gey-jing]
adjective
1.
winning; attractive; pleasing:
an engaging smile.

So yes, engaging does correlate to enjoyment which correlates to whether someone finds something fun.

I also never ever said that PLD was more complex or even less complex than any other job, such as WAR. What I did say was that using Oath swapping is something more that can be done that will add complexity and potentially enjoyment of the job, however how much will vary on the individual.

"Most people I have seen state they would like to see more variety/flavor" is a statement that I can get behind and one that I have supported and given ideas on many times in the past on the forums. However that statement does not mean the same thing as "the majority of the people don't feel like this makes Paladin anymore engaging". I link these two statements as it seems the first is the only example in which you provide a sampling of people's opinions with which to come to the conclusion of the second statement.

Could PLD use some more variety, flavor and complexity. Very much so and I greatly hope this is something that will come with the expansion, but that is a completely different topic.
This threads intended purpose was to look at the tools that PLD already has available and make the most use of them to get the most out of them, that is all.

[Wintersandman]

FFS, I can't believe you are making me do this.

engaging
[en-gey-jing]
adjective
1.
winning; attractive; pleasing:
an engaging smile.

So yes, engaging does correlate to enjoyment which correlates to whether someone finds something fun.

If you're going to quote a definition make sure you look at all of it and how it is used.

Verb:
1. to occupy the attention or efforts of (a person or persons).

I play Paladin when I don't want to have to think as much because I am less engaged. Not that I am bored.

[TouchandFeel]

You used the adjective form of it, not as a verb.

And I guess the majority of the people don't feel like this makes Paladin anymore engaging.

I know the difference and usage, context and conjugation of a word can alter its meaning.
Believe me, you do not want to argue the usage of the English language with me, it won't turn out in your favor.

Even ignoring definition semantics, whether or not someone is engaged by something is again entirely subjective, just as much as whether something is fun or not.

You have already decided that PLD does not engage you as it is, so any alternate methods of usage proposed will most likely be met with a "whatever, still boring" response. Personally that is fine if you don't find it fun, engaging, whatever. That is your prerogative, but you shouldn't try to put down other's ideas or suggestions based solely on that opinion.

[Wintersandman]

You used the adjective form of it, not as a verb. I know the difference and usage, context and conjugation of a word can alter its meaning.

You're too touchy feely about this. If you would like to state my intention without really knowing it like I said earlier you would say otherwise.

By the way PLD is my highest ilvl because I find it boring.

Oh I should add /sarcasm to the end of that since you are so literal.