The problem with Summoners

[Craiger]

Minorin, why do you keep replying my posts like I'm suggesting SMN should be reworked or that current abilities be buffed? I never said that... I simply spoke out about what I hope SE does with the new abilities coming in 3.0, which I'm 99.99% certain won't be shared with SCH.

To increase SMNs DPS, they don't need to do anything to the current spells that SMN share with SCH. If we put the SS aside, they can balance their DPS with new spells that make up for it. I would want them to add another DoT actually, because SMN doesn't use DoTs that are their own right now, they only use Arcanist ones. They could even change something with a trait if they wanted, cause there are nothing stopping them from changing so new traits are separate from SCH and SMN.

Also, I don't understand what you meant about skill/spell speed... They said both skill speed and spell speed will see a change, and that DoTs will be affected by them, so of course melee DPS will see an increase in DoT damage too. I don't know why you involved haste, cause it has nothing to do with it.

I'm not whining about SMN, I'm simply offering my view on how they could improve them in the expansion. I don't even play as SMN right now, so it's not that.

Some people might like SMN the way they are, but every SMN I've talked with in the game, wants big changes in 3.0... And SE gotta realize that people don't like it.

EDIT:

if it's as I explained earlier then it will boost the AOE damage because we're talking about multiple extra ticks with bane going. It's simply way too OP

Have you played BLM, or seen their AoE damage? With a pot, you can do 3 flares in a row, and trust me, SMN wouldn't even come close to that AoE damage... And that's including only 4 enemies, which is the maximum SMN can use Bane on...

One more thing i'm not 100% sure about (if someone can confirm, I tested it by dying and summoning pet-> the HP was the same) but Summoner's pet does not get affect by weakness when summoned so some of your outgoing damage which is 30-40% not affect by your death at all, can BLM beat that?

Have no idea about the weaknes, but as for BLM being able to beat that... Yes they can... Because, you will most likely need MP song when you have died as a SMN. That lowers your BRD's DPS by 20%, which he might not have needed to do otherwise. BLM gets full MP within a couple of secs and can continue doing more damage than SMN.

Also, I might be wrong, but I haven't heard anyone affording to res someone and still be fine without any MP song in Final Coil, which is what we're talking about here. If the healers need MP, then it doesn't matter, but if he has to use MP song for only you, then your group will fall further behind in DPS compared to having a BLM


Basically, to end this argument... please don't deny that SMN are under-powered right now, cause nobody else denies that. What I was talking about, was how they could fix that in the expansion, then you started talking about accepting the job as it is etc. Which there really is no point in, because of the expansion being here in 3 months.

[Minorinz]

Minorin, why do you keep replying my posts like I'm suggesting SMN should be reworked or that current abilities be buffed? I never said that... I simply spoke out about what I hope SE does with the new abilities coming in 3.0, which I'm 99.99% certain won't be shared with SCH.

this isn't about you, i'm just replying to when you started quoting me...

To increase SMNs DPS, they don't need to do anything to the current spells that SMN share with SCH. If we put the SS aside, they can balance their DPS with new spells that make up for it. I would want them to add another DoT actually, because SMN doesn't use DoTs that are their own right now, they only use Arcanist ones. They could even change something with a trait if they wanted, cause there are nothing stopping them from changing so new traits are separate from SCH and SMN.

I already see that happening as I mentioned it in my previous post. since it's SS related.

Also, I don't understand what you meant about skill/spell speed... They said both skill speed and spell speed will see a change, and that DoTs will be affected by them, so of course melee DPS will see an increase in DoT damage too. I don't know why you involved haste, cause it has nothing to do with it.

That's because like you said you didn't understand, and I can't really make it easier to understand, sadly...

I'm not whining about SMN, I'm simply offering my view on how they could improve them in the expansion. I don't even play as SMN right now, so it's not that.

Some people might like SMN the way they are, but every SMN I've talked with in the game, wants big changes in 3.0... And SE gotta realize that people don't like it.

The class was extremely popular during SCoB so nothing was wrong with it, and people don't care about the class/job, people care about powerful dps (:
Summoner started being an issue when FCoB came out, so you can't tell me that people are not pleased with class just for the sake of the class design being bad or lacking since barely anyone complained back then... this is just absolute hypocrisy.

EDIT:

Have you played BLM, or seen their AoE damage? With a pot, you can do 3 flares in a row, and trust me, SMN wouldn't even come close to that AoE damage... And that's including only 4 enemies, which is the maximum SMN can use Bane on...

I actually did, with 4 targets SMN is quite OP if CDs are saved it can easily beat a BLM, more than 4 is quite useless because flare will beat any bane. BLM is an aoe class and will be better than summoner at it so I have accepted it, but it shouldn't be better at single target too.

Have no idea about the weaknes, but as for BLM being able to beat that... Yes they can... Because, you will most likely need MP song when you have died as a SMN. That lowers your BRD's DPS by 20%, which he might not have needed to do otherwise. BLM gets full MP within a couple of secs and can continue doing more damage than SMN.

You only need few MP ticks for like 20-30 secs until aetherflow is up which will barely affect your bard's dps, and if you already have your aetherflow then you can start pulling more damage than a blm who has to go through umbral phase to get mana back before astral with it's dps hindered with 100% weakness from being res'd, unlike you with your pet.

Also, I might be wrong, but I haven't heard anyone affording to res someone and still be fine without any MP song in Final Coil, which is what we're talking about here. If the healers need MP, then it doesn't matter, but if he has to use MP song for only you, then your group will fall further behind in DPS compared to having a BLM

I've res'd a billion times in FCoB and MP is never an issue now, I even res before the healer because I simply can afford it. Also if you checked the top dps on the summoner board, you'll see notes of summoners getting their pets swapped multiple times during a fight, and that btw costs a lot of mana =D

Basically, to end this argument... please don't deny that SMN are under-powered right now, cause nobody else denies that. What I was talking about, was how they could fix that in the expansion, then you started talking about accepting the job as it is etc. Which there really is no point in, because of the expansion being here in 3 months.

I'm not denying it but i'm against reworking the summoner class and those who are whining about how it's going to be in 3.0 without giving it a chance, so I am accepting the job as it is. I hope SS will be in it's advantage more than any other class.