8 man "raids" = final content?

[Wintersandman]

Sounds like you have a bad FC or a bad guild/raid leader.

Other players shouldn't suffer because some players are bad at the games they play.

Only takes one person to have an off day and mess up a raid.

[Nekrage]

Only takes one person to have an off day and mess up a raid.

That would be on the guild leader. Extras are ALWAYS needed.

[Able]

No thank you.

[Nekrage]

No thank you.

Every child wants things handed to them on a silver platter. Get out there and work for your rewards.

[ShaneDawn]

Every child wants things handed to them on a silver platter. Get out there and work for your rewards.

Where does this mentality stir from? I can see pros and cons on both 8/24-man content, but the in-fact the less people there are, the more individual skill and effort matters. Unless they go out of their way and make it rigorously hard with every death being a possible wipe and creating specific and meaningful mechanics for everyone, which I don't see them doing, because so few people can even pass FCoB.

Have you, op, completed FCoB since our 8-man content is obviously so casual and easy? Or are you just that good and can't bother with our ez raids?

[Casper]

Okay let's be real here please.

First of all, it is mathematic that 24 man raids allow more slacking. Currently you have the equivalent of 5 to 6 dps (tanks and healers doing 1 to 2 dps's dps). Most of the time, someone do 10% less than they should, everyone else need to do 2% more. That's possible, often, you can't ask everyone to be 100% even on 8man. Someone does 25% less though, and everyone needs to do 5% more -- if things are challenging, then it's probably not possible. So having one person do 25% less than optimal is often not an option in current 8man raids.

In 24 man raids, you would have most likely 3 tanks, 6 healer, 15 dps (cause 6 tanks is retarded). That would be 19 to 20 equivalent dps's dps. One guy doing 25% less than usual can be picked up by everyone else doing 1.2% more -- which is well within the randomness of the numbers anyway. It's is just matematically impossible to make 24man raid be as challenging as 8man can be.

[Casper]

The second point is that, for all 20+ man raids ever, the single most challenging ability of bosses has always been "get people to show up". Even with 8 man, getting everyone to be on the same schedule, having backups when people can't attend, having everyone talk when they have problems to attend / are late, replacing people, recruiting when someone leave, etc, this is already a huge part of the difficulty of raiding. With 24 man, those problems get to such a scale that everything else is trivial in comparison. Seriously -- finding 4 dps that can do 95% of their optimal is already not trivial, you think finding 15 would be anything but a nightmare ? Please.

8 man raids is the single thing i love the most in this game. Please keep it that way. The day 24 man raids are the most challenging content, i will seriously reconsider staying. I am a raid leader and i'm not going through that shit, thanks.

[Spoekes]

Let OP experience the tougher 8-man content for himself and then come back to this topic and think again if he wants to do this stuff with 24 people.

Seeing that OP doesn't seem to even have one class to 50 yet, hasn't even stepped into one single 8-man duty but is already getting into salty arguments here, there's nothing to take serious what has been said in the original post or after...

[Nekrage]

Let OP experience the tougher 8-man content for himself and then come back to this topic and think again if he wants to do this stuff with 24 people.

Seeing that OP doesn't seem to even have one class to 50 yet, hasn't even stepped into one single 8-man duty but is already getting into salty arguments here, there's nothing to take serious what has been said in the original post or after...

I am talking of numbers, not content. You CANNOT call your game an MMO when the first M stands for massive and your endgame consists of 8 people. Really just an embarrassment to the MMO genre at that point.

[Sayora]

I am talking of numbers, not content. You CANNOT call your game an MMO when the first M stands for massive and your endgame consists of 8 people. Really just an embarrassment to the MMO genre at that point.

What? If WoW dropped its 25-man content altogether and used only 10-mans it'd still be an MMO.

TERA is another MMO where the most challenging content are 5-man dungeons. Nothing wrong with 8-man fights being end-game.