Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

[Addicted]

I found the whole part where you're presented before everyone else as the murderer really poorly done. There was no evidence against you that'd hold under scrutiny. There was that poison glass vial which you picked up that wasn't even on your person when you're thrown, a Brave had it. Trying to put the WoL under trial would be laughable, our political influence is far too big. Who would everyone believe, the money grubbing merchants with countless hidden agendas or the guy that saved the realm countless times before. A toddler could argue its way out of that situation. The faith everyone has in us is even shown. After the story is done, just speak with any NPC and they'll say no one believes you actually did anything. Speak with the guards that are supposed to be arresting you and none even try either out of fear (a feeling that was very suspiciously missing) or out of respect and admiration.

I understand why our character is as passive as an avocado but, when you decide to throw him or her in such a spotlight, that passivity can't be taken to such an extreme. It just looks bad on the story and the writing. This kind of crass dissonance could be more excused in other games but for a franchise and a game that prides itself so much on its story, it's simply shameful.

Another thing that I found very odd was our pick of exile to Ishgard. Why Ishgard? Gridania and Limsa want nothing to do with what happened in Ul'dah and it's not like the Braves or the Brass Blades have any agency in those 2 cities. Sure, Coerthas is a much more isolated place and it'd be harder to get information on you but I found it odd as a first choice, especially since you were already headed towards the Black Shroud. I'd have found it easier to accept if we got rescued directly by Cid via airship while still in Ul'dah. It'd have made for a much more interesting scene and it'd have reaffirmed Cid's importance in the main story quest which was sorely lacking since he all but disappeared outside of the Crystal Tower story.

[Velia]

I found the whole part where you're presented before everyone else as the murderer really poorly done. There was no evidence against you that'd hold under scrutiny. There was that poison glass vial which you picked up that wasn't even on your person when you're thrown, a Brave had it. Trying to put the WoL under trial would be laughable, our political influence is far too big. Who would everyone believe, the money grubbing merchants with countless hidden agendas or the guy that saved the realm countless times before. A toddler could argue its way out of that situation. The faith everyone has in us is even shown. After the story is done, just speak with any NPC and they'll say no one believes you actually did anything. Speak with the guards that are supposed to be arresting you and none even try either out of fear (a feeling that was very suspiciously missing) or out of respect and admiration.

I understand why our character is as passive as an avocado but, when you decide to throw him or her in such a spotlight, that passivity can't be taken to such an extreme. It just looks bad on the story and the writing. This kind of crass dissonance could be more excused in other games but for a franchise and a game that prides itself so much on its story, it's simply shameful.

Another thing that I found very odd was our pick of exile to Ishgard. Why Ishgard? Gridania and Limsa want nothing to do with what happened in Ul'dah and it's not like the Braves or the Brass Blades have any agency in those 2 cities. Sure, Coerthas is a much more isolated place and it'd be harder to get information on you but I found it odd as a first choice, especially since you were already headed towards the Black Shroud. I'd have found it easier to accept if we got rescued directly by Cid via airship while still in Ul'dah. It'd have made for a much more interesting scene and it'd have reaffirmed Cid's importance in the main story quest which was sorely lacking since he all but disappeared outside of the Crystal Tower story.

Well said. Better than I in parts :P
It's a shame when Chrono Trigger did the whole sham accusation thing so much better.

[Risvertasashi]

Another thing that I found very odd was our pick of exile to Ishgard. Why Ishgard? Gridania and Limsa want nothing to do with what happened in Ul'dah and it's not like the Braves or the Brass Blades have any agency in those 2 cities.

I agree with you on every point but this one. The problem is...

Lolorito is now more or less the ruler of Ul'Dah. No matter how ridiculous their claims might be, harboring a fugitive accused of murder... well, not the best place to be politically. Pretty much why Kan-E-Senna and Merlwyb left at the scene of the deed.

At least, ostensibly that's the reason. I think, as the warrior of light, our characters would have enough public support that a nation could champion our cause and turn matters to their favor.

...that might be exactly what Ishgard is planning on doing? And hey, Ishgardians didn't abandon us while we were tied up on the floor. Right now, honestly, there isn't a GC that I want to be enlisted in...

[Addicted]

text

Yes, seeking refuge in the other 2 cities would have more dire political ramifications, ones we could even use in our favor, like you said. I understand why Ishgard, I just think the urgency could have been better conveyed, which also ties into this:

You know the worst part? Alphinaud says right at the end that you can likely go back to Ul'dah because nobody believes you're guilty and nobody will support any action against you.
So this exile is entirely unnecessary because it's canon that Ul'dah is too lazy and lacks any backing to go after you.

I admire them for trying to make such drastic changes in the storyline, as poorly executed I think they may have been. I'd admire them even more if they tried to reflect that change in the actual world, especially since this is an MMO. Something as simple as having a hooded model while in Ul'dah or your face obscured while in Revenant's Toll. You may say that the story shouldn't impact the gameplay and I'd agree but it'd be a temporary change foreshadowing the expansion. It'd make it seem more living and less static. The writers try to justify why everything remains the same and it just falls flat because a change of this magnitude can't be hand waved with NPC dialogue.

[Risvertasashi]

I admire them for trying to make such drastic changes in the storyline, as poorly executed I think they may have been. I'd admire them even more if they tried to reflect that change in the actual world, especially since this is an MMO. Something as simple as having a hooded model while in Ul'dah or your face obscured while in Revenant's Toll. You may say that the story shouldn't impact the gameplay and I'd agree but it'd be a temporary change foreshadowing the expansion. It'd make it seem more living and less static. The writers try to justify why everything remains the same and it just falls flat because a change of this magnitude can't be hand waved with NPC dialogue.

I don't think the execution was horrible. Room for improvement, sure, there's a few sore points...

...But the alternative, a road many MMOs take, is "We don't write anything that actually impacts the world very much." GW2's "living story" is another way around it, but then there's no way to revisit past events for new or just busy players.

All in all, despite my criticisms... I will say thanks to SE for writing something this meaningful. I'd rather seem them try than not have it. And maybe next time, they'll take our feedback and there will be a "resist arrest" option.

[Addicted]

I don't think the execution was horrible. Room for improvement, sure, there's a few sore points...

...But the alternative, a road many MMOs take, is "We don't write anything that actually impacts the world very much." GW2's "living story" is another way around it, but then there's no way to revisit past events for new or just busy players.

I hate GW2s Living Story with a passion. Since this is an MMO, we're used to stuff always remaining the same. What I'd want is more akin to a pre-expansion event. I like the fact they went with such a drastic change to the story but I'd be even more impressed if they managed to merge the story developments with game world changes. Not something huge, just something that shows, doesn't tell, that stuff changed.

[Risvertasashi]

I hate GW2s Living Story with a passion. Since this is an MMO, we're used to stuff always remaining the same. What I'd want is more akin to a pre-expansion event. I like the fact they went with such a drastic change to the story but I'd be even more impressed if they managed to merge the story developments with game world changes. Not something huge, just something that shows, doesn't tell, that stuff changed.

IMO they did exactly that? A lot of NPC dialogue (guildmasters and street NPCs, etc) changes after you complete 2.55.

[Stuff - It's the heroic thing to do.]

...Gotta agree with this.

[Addicted]

IMO they did exactly that? A lot of NPC dialogue (guildmasters and street NPCs, etc) changes after you complete 2.55.

Tangible changes to the game world, however small. I guess you could fit NPC dialogue in that category as a change to the game world but I'm looking for something more substantial. Much of the NPC changed dialogue, while still a consequence of completing the story, is more of a way to justify why everything remains the same.

[Causality]

Another thing that I found very odd was our pick of exile to Ishgard. Why Ishgard? Gridania and Limsa want nothing to do with what happened in Ul'dah and it's not like the Braves or the Brass Blades have any agency in those 2 cities. Sure, Coerthas is a much more isolated place and it'd be harder to get information on you but I found it odd as a first choice, especially since you were already headed towards the Black Shroud.

"Because I feel our Warrior of Light Fanboys over Haruchefant as much as he fanboys over our Warrior of Light." All joking aside, or am I? Seriously though, Ishgard is still under assault and its still in the best interest of the realm to reinforce Ishgard. View it as we may as well go there since we were heading back there anyway. Even if the Red Wedding, I mean Victory banquet, went off without a hitch or even if we fought back, We would have responded to Ishgard's need for help due to the dragons getting into the City.

[TruebladeNuke]

I did have separate responses initially ready for the two who responded, but instead, I'm just going to sit over here sipping my lemonade because quite frankly, I only see this thread going up in flames. No... actually, it already has.

I'll just wait for the inevitable thread lock/deletion. And be reminded as to why I typically avoid posting on official forums because of crap like this. Seriously, stuff like this is why I prefer to just simply play the game instead of trying to discuss anything with people. The drastic different viewpoints and caustic nature of humanity just makes me weep for humanity in general.

When the hell are people finally going to start respecting each other?