Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

[Velia]

As I've said I'm used to the passivity.
However, it's been justified usually because "SCENE HAPPENS" and then > you get to act, usually in a fight.
Here however they chose to give way entirely to the narrative, which is fine. But if they're going to involve the player in such a heavy narrative keeping us so passive just doesn't work.

Options would be fine. As would actions dependant on current job. DRG jumps out the window. WHM stuns with Holy. PLD shield bashes some fools. NIN vanishes. That sort of thing. Can't be too much work and would look very satisfying.

[Risvertasashi]

As I've said I'm used to the passivity.
However, it's been justified usually because "SCENE HAPPENS" and then > you get to act, usually in a fight.
Here however they chose to give way entirely to the narrative, which is fine. But if they're going to involve the player in such a heavy narrative keeping us so passive just doesn't work.

Options would be fine. As would actions dependant on current job. DRG jumps out the window. WHM stuns with Holy. PLD shield bashes some fools. Ninja vanishes. That sort of thing. Can't be too much work and would look very satisfying.

...Yeah ok, I have to agree. It was like watching, well, a movie, but we're used to controlling our characters. Such is the trend of modern MMOs but it was really frustrating.

[Shiki_Lockhart]

Dont forget to hide the text too or expect thread being deleted as they say here.

Or better the thread is on very top and pinned so why make a new thread with spoilers not hidden and instead of that posting in the correct thread?

[Takfloyd]

Some of your points, mostly pertaining to the passive protagonist, are very valid. I wish they'd made the PC a real character from the start, with adjustable personality and voice, like in many western RPGs.

Some of them are not though. For example, Nanamo's poisoning was supposed to be obvious to the viewer, which they achieved through the use of camera angles. It wasn't obvious to the characters though, and the same thing goes for Alphinaud. HE hadn't heard about the conspirators in the Braves yet and he had his head too far up his own ass to notice himself - do not mix up information available to the characters with that available to the player. His arrogant self-righteousness backfiring on him spectacularly was always in the cards as the central part of his character arc and necessary to turn him into a likable character in the future - I was just surprised it took this long.

Finally, the finale would also have been better if they just inserted a playable battle against Ilberd in there - feels a bit wrong to have the climax happen without a boss fight.

[Risvertasashi]

Some of your points, mostly pertaining to the passive protagonist, are very valid. I wish they'd made the PC a real character from the start, with adjustable personality and voice, like in many western RPGs.

While it's an alternative, the problem with that is you still have to make many of the decisions for the protagonist like we see here, but then you risk alienating people that feel like none of the voices/dialogue choices (because that's the only way they can change personality) don't match.

I think the real problem is they went with the silent protagonist approach, but then took the reigns out of our hands. Take for example Half-Life... it did this with great effect, but the game has almost no cutscenes at all. It has scripted cutscene-like sequences, but you're pretty much always in control of your character. And when you/Freeman did get captured, you went down fighting, which I think more people would have found palatable here (see OP's Thancred example)...

On the other hand, at least Square did try to incorporate the PC as a plot element...

[Ralos]

While I have agreements and disagreements with all your points..... all I care about is Nanamo is dead...... fk everything...... best NPC is gone....

[Velia]

You can edit your post to bypass the character limit.

Anyway, will edit post, so sit tight! Spoilers ahead! Be warned!

- My complaint with the poisoning is exactly that it's too obvious to us. There's such a thing as subtlety in storytelling.

- Teledi is an obvious fraud, he's been painted as an obvious fraud for several patches now. If he's reached the point he's openly arresting you there really is no way things could get worse and again I remind you Thancred in the exact same situation chooses to resist.

- Alphinaud is fully aware of Teledi's bribery several cutscenes prior, and was informed of Wilred's death. He has few excuses really.

- Ilberd was it? Ilberd just admitted to regicide, and don't tell me they couldn't hear him when everyone else was deathly quiet. Keep in mind all of the Scions had just been accused of treason so who cares about the rules especially since once again Thancred did not.

- Easy prey with Ilberd dead and the ringleaders taken care of? I think not. Plus with Raubahn with them they'd have more of a chance.

- Okay since we're talking politics, who has more of a reason to cooperate with Ul'dah? Gridania or Limsa, which have already declared they'd put their own interests first, or Ishgard, which now has a vested interest in gaining the support of the Alliance before it falls to a Horde invasion? Yeah. Oops.

[Velia]

While I have agreements and disagreements with all your points..... all I care about is Nanamo is dead...... fk everything...... best NPC is gone....

Oh please, we see her drink a nondescript poison with unknown effects, nobody is allowed to examine the body and the only people who say she is dead is a known liar and conman and a traitor to his friend, nation and employer.

She's totally alive.

[DarkDedede]

Does that mean we won't be getting any Crystal Brave gear? Makes me sad.

[AdamFyi]

- My complaint with the poisoning is exactly that it's too obvious to us. There's such a thing as subtlety in storytelling.

Yeah, you know the poison is there, but the characters do not. It creates suspense. You know there is poison, but you're helplessly sitting down there yelling at Nanamo to not drink it. You'd need to break the fourth wall to even have a chance of stopping her from drinking.

- Teledi is an obvious fraud, he's been painted as an obvious fraud for several patches now. If he's reached the point he's openly arresting you there really is no way things could get worse and again I remind you Thancred in the exact same situation chooses to resist.

At the time you were with Nanamo, I don't think you had a weapon with you. Correct me if I'm wrong. I just don't remember seeing a weapon.

- Alphinaud is fully aware of Teledi's bribery several cutscenes prior, and was informed of Wilred's death. He has few excuses really.

He was suspicious, yes. But I do not recall Alphinaud being privy to the information given to you at the Rising Stones. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

- Ilberd was it? Ilberd just admitted to regicide, and don't tell me they couldn't hear him when everyone else was deathly quiet. Keep in mind all of the Scions had just been accused of treason so who cares about the rules especially since once again Thancred did not.

Notice how everyone left the room - including the Admiral and the Seedseer. Thancred did have a weapon with him which allowed him to retaliate. I don't know if anyone else had any other weapon since it was stated that it was forbidden to draw your weapons in that room.

- Easy prey with Ilberd dead and the ringleaders taken care of? I think not. Plus with Raubahn with them they'd have more of a chance.

Not necessarily. Again, reinforcements were pretty close after you ran out of the banquet hall. Ilberd could have stalled for more time and you would eventually be outnumbered.

- Okay since we're talking politics, who has more of a reason to cooperate with Ul'dah? Gridania or Limsa, which have already declared they'd put their own interests first, or Ishgard, which now has a vested interest in gaining the support of the Alliance before it falls to a Horde invasion? Yeah. Oops.

I don't think you understand. Finding out another city-state is protecting a fugitive that you would be after would cause huge political problems and conflict between city-states. You'd end up with an all-out war against each other. To add, Ishgard was still in the process of joining the Alliance. They are not members just yet, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter. I guess the only thing that irked me was..

During the escape. We can see that Papalymo blasts the gate shut, but why not do it from the other side? I think it was unnecessary for them to even try to stall for time. The gates should have been enough at the least. :U