Suggestion to revoke the the bonus if new player leave the dungeon or raid.

[Gillionaire]

Simply put, because they're the ones who are often left behind as the rest of us progress.

It's easy to forget that we have to start somewhere and while many of us were able to enjoy the story because we leveled alongside people doing the same quests at the same time, newcomers don't have that luxury. They enter a game where people only run low level dungeons because they can get high-end rewards, and are forced into speed runs they're ill-equipped to handle or made to skip every cutscene in the game because the tanks have rushed on ahead.

I agree that something needs to be done to make this game more friendly towards new players, though at this point it's difficult to say what can be done. Most of the problem isn't the mechanics it's down to player attitudes and changing those is never an easy task.

I started playing in December during 2.4. I never had anybody hold my hands and I didn't expect them to.

Honestly, if I needed hand holding I could've asked my FC or made my own damn party.
There's no reason to get special treatment just because you're new..

I'm not saying you shouldn't provide a warm, welcoming environment to fresh faces.. But that can't be mandated by the game system. If you're the kind of person that takes charge and takes care of newcomers, you'll be rewarded for your own merits, game does not have to force people into playing big brother.

IMO, nothing needs to be done about the new players, if they like the game, they stick around. If they don't, they won't. Simple as that. I'm not opposed to helping new players, I've handed out quite a bit of things here and there to new players I've met just running around town. But if they DEMAND they get something because they're new? You're not getting a 2 gil potion out of me, take your sense of entitlement elsewhere.


And I say this as somebody who can honestly say has never taken a tip for crafting (unless offered by the other person first) or melding. I even provide my own carbonized matter most of the time when people do their pre-relic meld because they don't know how the process works. I've even walked to the MB to buy a full stack of carbon matter and just gave the whole stack to the other person so his FC could make use of it (his FC was a small low rank FC) I can and do help people, but only on my own accord. Moment SE mandates it, that's when I'll start putting price tags on all my voluntary services I currently offer for free.

[Gurpsmeister]

Why do they need their own system? I have a ton of friends that play this game, some recent additions some since 1.0. In fact most recently a guy joined my fc from scratch, leveled himself to 50, learned his fights, earned his gear and earned a spot in our FC static group. "Newbies" are just players like anyone else, there's no difference between a Veteran and a newbie. It's all in attitude I agree with that. If you're attitude is "I'm new hand hold me" then you're always going to be new and you're always going to be treated badly. If you're attitude is I'm new..but I'll learn. Then you can expect respect and help. The game already has a perfectly viable system in place, though at this point a soldiery bonus is obsolete.

The bonus is there to encourage veteran players to revisit content so that new players don't have to rot in a queue forever. It's not there for veterans to hold your hand or coddle you. This game is literally like every other MMO out there. Earn your keep, earn your spot, earn your respect. Entitlement creates a bad community..at least contributes.

I'm not saying there aren't people on the other side of things too, but more often then not when I see people claiming to be bullied it's that a group stood up and said no to carrying them. Frankly most of the issues are caused by the 'newbie' when it comes to bullying and I don't think giving them the ability to control the bonus directly is going to help them at all. In fact I wager it empties the queues and then what?

[Gardes]

How about we just we remove any incentive for experienced players to ever go back to the old content altogether? New players can hang around towns, make PFs or shout in towns for help or join fcs to get help if they dont have enough bodies to go through content they want to go through. Should be good times at all times then.

Just like the g1 limit break eldieme necropolis ancient papyrus (and etc) days.

[Fynlar]

This is what already happens.

I've unfortunately been a part of several groups where, for some reason or another, the newbie isn't part of the group by the end. Despite seeing the message at the start about there being a first timer bonus, you won't get it at the end if the new person isn't actually there.

[Dyne_Fellpool]

I don't think you should be kickable if it is your first run.
First timers have a stronger incentive to complete the Duty than anyone already, and so they are likely to do their best. Sure I guess someone could be new AND a troll (would be super rare)but its only one time, then they arent new anymore.

[Krr]

I'm not saying you shouldn't provide a warm, welcoming environment to fresh faces.. But that can't be mandated by the game system.

Ehh. Every action is a cost->reward structure, so you really can.

If someone's XP were converted to tomes, would they do fullclears of low level dungeons instead of speedruns? Maybe, if they're interested in more tomes! If I got 100 bonus sol for killing Twintania and it was feasibly possible to carry a newbie through that fight with pugs...hey, that already happens now! But in later content - T9, FCOB - it does the opposite - 100 sol is a pretty good flag that someone you don't personally know is going to crash your party, and not be worth the 'risk' to take along, so to speak. Accordingly, clears are sold and players set a price - in gil - that makes the risk of carrying a newbie "worth it".

so, the question is not "how do we force vets to give new players handouts", the question is, "how do we make vets feel the reward of giving new players a chance outweighs the risk in time wasted?" and frankly, i think it's one worth pursuing - additional rewards for helpin' aren't going to force insular vets to change their game, but it will encourage more to leave their bubbles and not erect firewalls against level 50 newbies who aren't "dedicated enough" to put up with weird side-eyes from pubbies, which like - yeah, it happens, and it sucks, and it's bad for the game and it's bad for everyone.

tbqh though, awkward mechanics revolving around votekicks aren't the solution to anything, discounting praetorium cutscene crapfests

[Gardes]

so, the question is not "how do we force vets to give new players handouts", the question is, "how do we make vets feel the reward of giving new players a chance outweighs the risk in time wasted?" and frankly, i think it's one worth pursuing

No amount of reward that isn't game breaking is going to be worth the risk because the amount of effort of 'putting up' with the first timer in harder fights potentially ranges from minimal to monumental. The game keeps neutering its own skill check gating in the name of easing up of new comers' instant gratification to the point where players can get all the way to t9 without actually knowing their own class (as you said, a df group in t5 can ignore a random player's zero contribution and push him into the t6-t9 zone). It's especially worse when a first time can basically kill other players in the group for their ignorance/inexperience with battle mechanics that are placed in the later phases of battle.

[Krr]

The game keeps neutering its own skill check gating in the name of easing up of new comers' instant gratification

let's be frank here, it's more about veterans' instant gratification. you find me the person who'd put up with doing twintania in its 2.0 state for something like 4 hours just to get a piece of i95 gear in the patch of our lord 2.5. yeah there's the handful of maybe 20 players per server who hadn't cleared twintania yet and probably aren't even all capable online at the same time to do it together much less finding each other in the first place that might bust their asses if you asked, but uh, stark minority

hell, not being able to find t9 learning groups is already endemic on many servers (and has been for months), because it's in the dead zone of "too hard to backtrack and demonstrate" but "too old to be worth doing because seriously screw putting up with divebombs for an i115." left in that deadzone you basically just end up with "players in fcob" and "players who will never go to fcob unless their fc carries them or they buy a run"

gating puggos with raid-level coordination checks doesn't really do what you'd think it does, is what I'm trying to say here, and like 90% of these fights aren't really about individual skill but executing group dance routines(*)

(*until your progression group lands in t13 and bahamut starts hitting your tank for like 8k unmitigated)

[Apricoth]

Doesn't WoW have a regular mode and then a Hard Mode feature of the exact same dungeon? Just the mobs are harder, more experience, etc? I think they should implement that here. So in that way, folks that go through the regular mode have gotten their newbness out of the way, have seen the cut scenes, can go into the Hard Mode version and move along without even being asked to skip since, hopefully, all participants have clicked the box in the FFXIV menu that won't bring that cut scene back up past the first time. Folks can then rip on each other for other things... LOL <sigh>

[Gardes]

let's be frank here, it's more about veterans' instant gratification. you find me the person who'd put up with doing twintania in its 2.0 state for something like 4 hours just to get a piece of i95 gear in the patch of our lord 2.5. it's like, the handful of 20 players per server who hadn't cleared twintania yet and probably aren't even all capable online at the same time to do it together much less finding each other in the first place

It's a problem with the system in the general. The system is trying to pit a first timer with veterans who are complete strangers who have no connection to each other so the system has to have bait to catch veterans quickly so that new players do not have to do any social 'jostling' and just get wins. Sometimes just making friends is enough (don't even know why you're writing that getting your fc to help you is something that you resort to after you've exhausted your pug/df options).