do I hafta..

[Spoekes]

So I had a WoD run where one of the alliances kicked their SCH healer after a Wipe. I can only guess why. I'm in Alliance B in this one.

maybe the SCH just left after the wipe like so many ppl do?

This is the very thing I'm talking about when it comes to carries and Healers doing ineffective amount of damage. In the 24-person raid, there's so little opportunity to DPS as a healer, that you may as well not bother so you don't get chewed out when one of the DPS players or Tanks dies.

Are you serious?
In every tower you have so much occasions to DPS and be very effective, I must presume you are just inexperienced.

There was a earlier Mainstream storyline run where the other healer (a SCH) entered in Cleric stance mode and didn't exit CS until I said something. They were doing all their heals with Cleric stance on up to that point. After that, they probably could have solo healed the entire party, but the first set of mobs... two characters die including one of the tanks. Now would it have happened had they been paying attention? I don't know but they were being entirely cheeky about it. This is not the first time a mainstream run through Castrum where I've reminded the other healer to turn cleric stance off during healing after waiting to see if they notice themselves.

This is an anecdote about a bad player. So what? You don't heal in CS, everyone on this thread knows that and its not to debate, it's not even on topic.

My experiences are indeed closer to "worst case" scenarios, because I've been playing exclusively with PUG groups. That's how you tell the difference between bad players and good players. Bad players can't figure out how to make lemonade from lemons, so they keep buying premade lemonade. Average and Good players can play with whatever they are given and shouldn't have to get into arguments over who isn't pulling their weight.

That's what the entire "should I dps as a healer?" argument comes back to.

Quite honestly the amount of elistist snobbery that comes out of the people who farm Coil is enough to just write off that content without a static group of players who actually want to play it for fun.

How did we end up here from the topic of healer dps? It's not an elitist thing. Uh boy...

[Spoekes]

unnecessary wall of text

All that you say here has already been answered: Situational awareness.
You as a healer contributing to the dps does not mean letting ppl die. It does not mean "Oh look new player message - gonna focus on dps anyway!".

Yeah healer DPS is not required to beat things but standing around doing nothing if (situational awareness) health is fine is lazy/bad.
Bad like a tank that does not use CDs, but you can keep him up anyway. He could also say "we cleared it anyways", but criticism would be justified.

[Cynfael]

I see a lot of text, but still not much that makes sense. Falling back to accusations of elitist fun-sucking is also a sure sign that the poster is out of real arguments and is still trying very hard to justify simply not wanting to DPS.

Straw man examples of bad players don't add anything to this debate, and continually bringing up CT raids as if they weren't already prone to being messy affairs full of clueless and/or trolling players also doesn't accomplish much.

[Cynfael]

Bad like a tank that does not use CDs, but you can keep him up anyway. He could also say "we cleared it anyways", but criticism would be justified.

Oh, but hadn't you heard? Apparently the Healer role has special dispensation to function at less than full capacity while remaining proof from criticism, unlike the Tank and DPS roles, who are expected to use their full kits appropriately....

[Raminax]

For all the moaning about the 24 man raids, people being complete tools are an exception, rather than the rule. At least in my experience! The same can be said for regular dungeoneering and such. Rare are the times when people just plain suck rather than being below average, and even rarer still are complete failures.

Besides, when healers DPS, you murder kill the trash to death, instead of just defeating it like a bore. Who wouldn't want to be that METAL?!

[DarkerOrange]

Do you HAVE to? No. Would it be helpful? Definitely.

I used to feel the same way as the OP, not really interested in DPSing (afterall, I became a healer to HEAL, right?), but one day I was a bit bored in low level roulette so I decided the throw out some DPS and I found that it added a whole new dynamic to my class that I had completely ignored up until that point.

Now I will always try to throw out some DoTs/Damage whenever I have some spare GCDs, cos it makes the the game more engaging.

TL;DR - Give it a try, you may just enjoy it.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

So I had a WoD run where one of the alliances kicked their SCH healer after a Wipe. I can only guess why. I'm in Alliance B in this one.

Oh look, more fabricated "facts".

There is no indication at all that the scholar got kicked or anything. Said scholar may have left on their own because he/she was abandoning a sinking ship. You guys wiped after all and apparently bad enough for someone to leave instantly after a wipe.

And the reason I censor out names/alliance names is so I'm not accusing people who might be in the same data center as me of being slackers, because I don't know the entire story. For the sake of arguments on the forums, the names are not important.

No one called out on you for censoring name. I've simply pointed out you're cropping and censoring bits that's beneficial for you to fabricate facts.

This is the very thing I'm talking about when it comes to carries and Healers doing ineffective amount of damage. In the 24-person raid, there's so little opportunity to DPS as a healer, that you may as well not bother so you don't get chewed out when one of the DPS players or Tanks dies.

You're not even reading what others are posting. Some even posted screenshots of their damage numbers. While all you are doing are making statements with no evidence to support said statements.

Quite honestly the amount of elistist snobbery that comes out of the people who farm Coil is enough to just write off that content without a static group of players who actually want to play it for fun.

And back to first base for you because you simply can't win this argument. If you haven't noticed yet, you've been repeating the same shit over and over like some broken record. "Oh, I saw X and Y job in CT". You didn't even get your facts right: You made a list that included Crystal Tower and Labyrinth of the Ancients; Which are pretty much the same thing! - CT is the old name for LotA.

You're apparently so hellbent on not DPSing as a healer, but you don't even seem to understand the arguments what others are making. Most of them aren't even saying that you must deal damage as a healer. More importantly; they're not calling you a scrub for not doing so. Unlike you, you immediately box them in as "elitists" or "not having fun". "Fun" is such a vague term that you can't even use it sustain the claims you make. While you haven't even beaten the Binding coil of Bahamut yet, or Turn 5 specifically, that's not the problem here. It's your hostility towards those who do and even more towards those who put more effort into their class. Meanwhile those who put a bit more effort into it has beaten far more content than you have presently. Beating content would grant one a certain case of satisfaction, or a shot of dopamine right before/right after beating the harder content if you will. This would actually explain why people want to beat harder content far better than you did so far; which is just throwing a tantrum.

[Whatever]

I mainly play as dps (blm) and for about 5months now.. I remember from the last few times I've gone through AV that I've seen the tank die quite a few times because the whm was too busy dpsing to heal the tank. I actually had to throw pitiful physicks at the tank till the healer noticed and took over :P Seeing how much rests on the healer's shoulders for keeping everyone alive.. dps should be the last concern of a healer. Albeit, some people are more comfortable in dpsing than others. Depends on the person and their play style and how it fits into the party dynamic. Just boils down to using or not using your full potential...

[Ghishlain]

I mainly play as dps (blm) and for about 5months now.. I remember from the last few times I've gone through AV that I've seen the tank die quite a few times because the whm was too busy dpsing to heal the tank. I actually had to throw pitiful physicks at the tank till the healer noticed and took over :P Seeing how much rests on the healer's shoulders for keeping everyone alive.. dps should be the last concern of a healer. Albeit, some people are more comfortable in dpsing than others. Depends on the person and their play style and how it fits into the party dynamic. Just boils down to using or not using your full potential...

I feel AV is a good litmus test for adaptability for any healer. When I was doing the Zodiac farm on AV on SCH, I've been from 95% Heal mode / 5% DPS mode all the way to Fairy auto heal + 95% DPS up time. What I end up doing usually depended on the skill level of the tank and DPS I ended up getting. Since we can't overgear AV, the skill disparity becomes incredibly apparent. If you can handle any facet of party thrown at you in AV, you can pretty much handle any facet of party thrown at you for any PuG-based content.

[KisaiTenshi]

Oh look, more fabricated "facts".

You're apparently so hellbent on not DPSing as a healer, but you don't even seem to understand the arguments what others are making. Most of them aren't even saying that you must deal damage as a healer.

No, there's people in this thread that are are obsessed with minmaxing, that if the healer isn't included, then they're angry that the healer isn't maximizing the damage. You are so quick to assume things about me that are untrue.

While you haven't even beaten the Binding coil of Bahamut yet, or Turn 5 specifically, that's not the problem here.

I'm not confident I'm going to find people who want to play it for fun given that the PF's are always full of people trying to sell carries through it or other content. Given how PUG groups have gone, I'm doubtful that anyone is even doing them if they're so "hard".

You know what... I'm going to sit in the DF queue all day on Turn 1 (until I get a party) and see if anyone joins.

Took less than 10 minutes. Party was all newbies except one DPS and one tank. Run took 28 minutes Through The Binding Coil of Bahamut turn 1.
Stuff that happened:
- Wipe at ADS, tank ran in without the DPS.
- One Wipe at Caduceus, the first time the panels lit up.