Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[Kaze3434]

1. Purposefully sabotaging your teammates in an online game. The speed runner may be in the wrong but deliberately getting them killed makes you the one the law/GM would ban

2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual repeatedly or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game. Again applies to both SR but you turned it on yourself I've been a GM for another MMO and I would be forced to take the SR side.

3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics. More of the what i said above, seeing the pattern?

i can already see how the response will be like. see below for example of how you would be responded to.

1. im not saying to sabotage your teammates, just the speed running bully. i didnt kill them, they killed themselves by trying to speed run, (i just didnt heal them.)
2. again, i didnt kill them. next.
3. my tactic isnt cheap, it gets the speed runner to come downn off their high horse and run the dungeon how it should be, as dictated by the party(me and me alone). if it takes them dying, then thats a small price to pay to teach them that.

[NyarukoW]

... You really need to look at the amount of posts against you and think maybe just maybe i'm not 100% right.
...

The die hard vocal speed runners will defend to their last breath their belief that they can force a speed run on everyone else regardless of circumstances. But doesn't change the fact that I've earned plenty of commendations while dropping the speed runner corpse on the ground like a sack of rocks when it is appropriate. I've seen their vote kicks blocked and in turn the speed runner gets vote kicked out even if I do no trigger the vote kick and vote against the vote kick.

... 1. Purposefully sabotaging your teammates in an online game. The speed runner may be in the wrong but deliberately getting them killed makes you the one the law/GM would ban

....
1. im not saying to sabotage your teammates, just the speed running bully. i didnt kill them, they killed themselves by trying to speed run, (i just didnt heal them.)
2. again, i didnt kill them. next.

But I did heal them. They got their regen, e4e, and medica 2 and a good bunch of cure 2 while you are at it. I just switch to DPS to make sure the mobs are dead along with the speed runner while the party does not wipe. The speed runner obviously did not give themselves enough safety margin that is their own fault. Try pulling smaller next time.

...
2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual repeatedly or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game. Again applies to both SR but you turned it on yourself I've been a GM for another MMO and I would be forced to take the SR side.
...

I do NOT repeatedly kill them. They can choose to be stubborn and get themselves killed again. Good thing you are not a GM for this game. The other members of the party already objected to the speed run and I am helping them not get abused by the speed running bully.

...3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics. ...

I don't grief other players and the tactics are NOT "cheap" whatever that means. It is effective means to slow down and unwanted speed run. Confronting the speed running bully and disrupting their antics is both right and proper. Not everything is a speed run and I am entirely free to share tactics and strategies as how to create a more sane and friend playing environment that is not run roughshod by speed runners.

You want to know what is cheat tactics, "speak up or I'll speed run" like the OP puts it, that is rude and irresponsible. The default on the DF is to NOT speed run. The speed runners are probably also pissed by the fact I specifically run Prae with either 2 healer or 2 tanks and make sure everyone that wants to watch cutscenes gets to watch cutscenes. This where I got my orignal motivation to level up a tank after seeing healers get dragged along and back then I didn't know that I could do slow down the obnoxious speed runners. Now when a new FC member need Prae, I get my friendly healer or tank and we go together always as pair of tanks or a pair of healers plus the 1st timer. The speed runners will pull and die and wipe while we are all watching the cutscenes. And if the want to be stubborn about it they can keep trying and keep wiping themselves. They can try to vote kick, and if they are successful to kick one of us we will all just leave and get instant queue again, but they will be down 2 healer or 2 tanks and dead in the water along with a 3rd member they have to replace. However those votes to date have always failed and we report all the verbal abuse that follows.

[Naliee]

On all and any straightforward cases, where you just need heal or dps or tank'n'spank and avoid telegraphs, does not.

There are cases on which some hint on some role will help avoid wipes, anyway. See the healer on Cutter's Cry princess, or the tank swaps, and things alike.

Anyway, if system says there is new people, I assume there is new people unless they tell me they are not. I will not ask, because some times people does not even understand english so cannot reply.

This is why I would like to know if there's newbie in the group and who it is. We all want dungeons to go fast and smoothly.

[NyarukoW]

This is why I would like to know if there's newbie in the group and who it is. We all want dungeons to go fast and smoothly.

We all want the experience to smooth and pleasant and inclusive so that all the players can participate. Fast is nice bonus not necessary requirement. When the system puts up that new player bonus, it does NOT hurt anyone to assume that they are new. If they are not new and is someone's alt, that player should be experienced enough to speak or ask nicely for a speed run. As much as advise all the new/newer player in my FC to announce that they are new, you do not have the right to expect every newbie openly state that.

Threatening the new/newer players with a speed run like the OP "speak up or else I'll speed run" is a "cheap" tactic of the bully. People do not need to dignify that kind of crap with a response. This is not how respectful people communicate with each other.

[Kaze3434]

But I did heal them. They got their regen, e4e, and medica 2 and a good bunch of cure 2 while you are at it. I just switch to DPS to make sure the mobs are dead along with the speed runner while the party does not wipe. The speed runner obviously did not give themselves enough safety margin that is their own fault. Try pulling smaller next time.
I do NOT repeatedly kill them. They can choose to be stubborn and get themselves killed again. Good thing you are not a GM for this game. The other members of the party already objected to the speed run and I am helping them not get abused by the speed running bully.

key point here. you admit to actively trying to make sure that one person, the "speed running bully", dies because you (regardless of what anyone besides that one person said, or didnt say) felt like they no longer warranted healing and the time that could have been spent doing the primary role of a healer was best spent trying to kill them.
another person had already used this before, but you ignored it in your reply, so lets try again. a group of 3 people hop into df, and you end up as the healer. greetings are made, and that magic question asked. "speed run ok?" you opt to say nothing, while the 3 who came in together already know what they want. you stay silent as some kind of test to see what they do. they give up trying to ask and start the dungeon. one big pull later, the tank is dead because of no heals(your regen, e4e, and med II prior/at pull are a pretty weak attempt to do much of anything). others ask what went wrong to kill the tank, only to be met with more silence. shrug and move on. this repeats on the next two big pulls and everyone is noticing that no heals are being given to the tank near the tail end of the pulls.

at that point they have a few options; try and figure out why you keep letting him die, or kick you(and no, its not abuse of vote kick for kicking someone with different play styles, as pointed out by one of the posts in this thread).

looking at how you normally respond, you will largely ignore anything in this post that could paint you to look bad and "defend" new people. while that is fine and dandy, the person creating the biggest rift between vets and new people is you, because you seem to think that new people are somehow totally incapable of using any form of comunication, and place sole responsibility on vets/speed runners. thats not how group content works, and that you think it is ok to do any of the things you do shows what kind of "person" you are.

[NyarukoW]

.. the time that could have been spent doing the primary role of a healer was best spent trying to kill them.

The primary role of the healer is to keep the party alive. The speed runner puts the party in the no-win situation where someone has to be sacrificed to the greater good of the party, and everytime that decision is both clear and correct to sacrifice the speed runner, the instigator of the problem in the first place. If the speed runner took the time to communicate the game plan and everyone was on board, then no sacrifice would be necessary. But to a speed runner the time spent to communicate properly and effectively makes it no longer a speed run. Unfortunately, the corpse of the speed runner on the ground is the only effective means to communicate with the non-communicative speed runner.

[Kaze3434]

The primary role of the healer is to keep the party alive. The speed runner puts the party in the no-win situation where someone has to be sacrificed to the greater good of the party, and everytime that decision is both clear and correct to sacrifice the speed runner, the instigator of the problem in the first place. If the speed runner took the time to communicate the game plan and everyone was on board, then no sacrifice would be necessary. But to a speed runner the time spent to communicate properly and effectively makes it no longer a speed run. Unfortunately, the corpse of the speed runner on the ground is the only effective means to communicate with the non-communicative speed runner.

its sad that this entire response was predictable. ignored everything except that one point. last i checked, the speed runner(how you think anyone but the tank sets the pace is beyond me) dying repeatedly is going to be cause for concern no matter what.

[SpiritMuse]

I'm not entirely understanding the problem with NyarukoW here. I mean, they're only agitating against jerk speedrunners who don't communicate and try to force a speedrun even over other players' objections, right? Or am I reading things wrong (which is entirely within the realm of possibility)?

[Wildsprite]

No, I am not psychic. No, I don't assume that because you're poorly geared that you are new. No, the message at the beginning does not tell me that there are multiple new people.

Yes, you should have responded when I asked in the beginning who's new.

If you do not tell me you're new; expect a speed run and understand that I expect you to understand the dungeon.

Now, tell me that you're new and I will ALWAYS pull slowly and I'll make sure you don't get lost.

first I expect to be asked if it's okay to speed run not if I'm new. I will object if givin the choice. I absolutely hate speed runs, they are for people with no patience. frankly I do not care if you just like to kill faster you still have no patience.

of the many reasons people don't respond have been touched on but the biggest one if there is a language barrier is the auto translate stinks. let's face it in FFXI you could use the auto translate much easier than the one in this and part of the reason for that was it had enough basics you could use off words to complete a basic enough sentance most could understand. the auto translate in this I have had a tough time getting what I want to say most times when I know people don't speak english.

simple solution = make your own party n speed run all you want.. Df isnt designed to cater for those who just wanna speed run everything

when people enter DF they should ALWAYS assume there may be a new player or someone who does not like speedruns or is not comfortable with them.

I'm still pretty new to the game (compared to many other people) and I have noticed one thing: In low level dungeons, every time I revealed to be new, people seemed to be very helpful.
Lately I (ilvl 81) tried to do Amdapor's Keep. I said that I was new... a few seconds later, everyone else was gone. Not very motivating

I'm very sorry this happened to you. leaving a DF dungeon because someone says they are new makes you a douchebag. no exceptions on that point.

[AdamFyi]

first I expect to be asked if it's okay to speed run not if I'm new. I will object if givin the choice. I absolutely hate speed runs, they are for people with no patience. frankly I do not care if you just like to kill faster you still have no patience.

Of all the of what the OP said, how the hell did you miss line 4 when it's clear as day that you've read line 6 and 8?

Yes, you should have responded when I asked in the beginning who's new..

---

I'm not entirely understanding the problem with NyarukoW here. I mean, they're only agitating against jerk speedrunners who don't communicate and try to force a speedrun even over other players' objections, right? Or am I reading things wrong (which is entirely within the realm of possibility)?

Read through their replies, then read the entire post of the person they're replying to. They basically only attack one specific point in their post, then twisting it to make it as if they're wrong. NyarukoW is pretty predictable.