Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[NyarukoW]

This is harassment and I would kick you for using any of those methods in a party I was in. ... You should try to practice what you preach because this just proves you're just as bad as any of the people forcing speed runs.

I do not force my ideals on others, but those are effective techniques to slow down a speed run. I only use them when there are players that did not vote in agreement to a speed run. And you can go and try to vote kick abuse and I will report you for vote kick abuse. Chances are the other players that did not want to speed run will not go along and then you'd have to wait for a tank or healer anyways which already helps everyone else in big picture when speed runners are stuck in instance waiting. People have to have tools and methods to stand up against the speed running bullies.

BTW I've always stated that speed run itself is neutral, it is all about how the speed runner does things. If they try to bully others into the speed run like a silent pull of everything, then that is when I apply my toolkit to disrupt the speed run. Moreover you should never assume to speed run on the DF and do not expect others to silently agree to speed run like the OP does. And do not use it as an excuse to bash on the new/newer players who may never even read forums like this or watch videos or even know that it is generally to their benefit to say that they are new.

[Mugiawara]

We have been down this speedrun road so many times.
When you're in DF you're rolling the die with people.

PF: You all agree to this and that when you joined it. So you can't really complain because they had already set things in stone.
DF: You didn't. Be courteous to your fellow players and ask them if they want a SR.

Why is it so hard to be nice on this game? You know why people do not talk?
People bash then, name call and all other stuffs or fears of being kicked out.

[DoctorPepper]

I do not force my ideals on others, but those are effective techniques to slow down a speed run. I only use them when there are players that did not vote in agreement to a speed run. And you can go and try to vote kick abuse and I will report you for vote kick abuse. Chances are the other players that did not want to speed run will not go along and then you'd have to wait for a tank or healer anyways which already helps everyone else in big picture when speed runners are stuck in instance waiting. People have to have tools and methods to stand up against the speed running bullies.

They are not effective at all, they are harassment, period. You're going out of your way to target a specific player and give them a bad experience. Whether they're a jerk or not, you're being a jerk by employing these methods so don't try to justify them.

If people really don't want to speed run then you are allowed to kick the person who is trying to force you to do so, the devs specifically said you were allowed to kick people based on a difference in play style.

You're basically saying that the people in the group don't want to speed run yet they don't have the patience to wait for a new tank or healer? Give me a break, you either care enough to kick them and wait or not. Besides, if you go out of your way to target these players they will probably just go afk until you kick them anyways or they will leave, either way you will have to wait. In the end you will waste more time screwing with them than it would take to replace them.

Bottom line, you don't fix jerks by being a jerk yourself. It's as simple as that, you may think you have a solution here but you're only creating more problems.

I agree with you that people should not force others to play a certain way but that goes both ways. What your methods do is no different than the people you're trying to stop in my opinion. Unfortunately you don't get to pick whether it's going to be a speed run or not as a duty finder option and there will be times when you have people who are jerks or try to force their ideals on you but there are other ways to deal with that aside from getting mad and sinking down to their level.

[FoxyAreku]

I don't understand all the 'don't assume people speak english' posts.

There is a language option ON THE DUTY FINDER. If I mark english only, I'm going to expect people to speak english.

[nuyu11]

Yeap... I know some speed runner want to end it fast because they may doing the same run for more than 10 times already with the limited set of skills and it may stress them a bit (this might not be happening if you not made this as a chores). So that's why better you guys go with your friends, you can chat, doing jokes, and the sync is much better.
Not all new player are willing to talk, it happens to me before in NA/EU server when I said "Hi I'm New" and the tank replied "Pstt.." and he just ignore me and go straight leaving me behind clueless.

DF is random why you put expectation that everyone want to speed running, unless you're with your friends.

[Kaze3434]

I do not force my ideals on others, but those are effective techniques to slow down a speed run. I only use them when there are players that did not vote in agreement to a speed run. And you can go and try to vote kick abuse and I will report you for vote kick abuse. Chances are the other players that did not want to speed run will not go along and then you'd have to wait for a tank or healer anyways which already helps everyone else in big picture when speed runners are stuck in instance waiting. People have to have tools and methods to stand up against the speed running bullies.

first, yes, you do force your ideals on others. you have been doing it for as long as anyone knows, and what you have been saying is all the evidence needed. just in case its not clear, slowing the run down to what you want is forcing your play style.

then there is your assuming to know what someone intends to do while playing.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2833549
really? a speed runner is trying to get the party wiped and take more time to complete the dungeon. suuuure
you always try to defend "noobs" and put labels on people should they play or have a different opinion than you, like with you calling speed runners bullies.
if anyone is being a bully, its you. "he doesnt play how i like, so im going to let him die over and over until he does" is pretty much what this post says.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2833776

[shape]

Oh boy the Sh*t Really hit the fan with this forum post. I pretty much only tank in this game and rarely have any problems with groups. You do not need to know if someone is new because as the tank you should be looking at the gear of at least the healer and making an estimation of what the pace of the run should be, the second thing is to look at what dps you have, is there a black mage, or at least 2 jobs that can push out good aoe dmg. If your going to slow, the group will let you know, this does not count when its one person out of the group unless its the healer then its up to you.

As a tank Speed running because your farming Zodiac, for example isn't an excuse to force speed runs or even a pace that the group cannot handle, your only gonna make the run longer anyway if you wipe. I've had to run allot of dungeons yesterday with lowered geared groups and well geared ones. None of the runs where slow and none of them had wipes on trash. i'm pretty much a silent tank, listen to bgm music on youtube or itunes so i'll use that as proof you do not need to communicate if you do your job properly.

As for my viewpoint on NyarikoW I can sympathise to certain degree but what you are doing is reportable and at least would be suitable grounds to vote kick (you are grieving). If the tank is a Dbag and speed runs, when the group is not able to do so, then play your job and wait for them to fail, this includes not accounting for dps and healers output/mana etc.when the tank dies, probably rages and blames healer or group. Turn the tables on them and vote kick them, report them if needed.Thats how you handle this situation in my opinion.Its not great solution because most tanks don't care about lockout with the short to instant queue times but theres not much that can be done. If you think just because your a healer that you won't get vote kicked think again i've seen many healers get the boot when lvling my DD.

For every good tank there a 100 bad, if its more correct that

[NyarukoW]

They are not effective at all, they are harassment, period. ...

It is effective and it is not harassment. People can report whatever they like, but you have real hard time convincing anyone sane that playing the dungeon safer without speed running is harassment. It is not harassment to go slower so that the people that do not want to or can not speed run would not be lost or feel abused. The party did not wipe but the speed runner found themselves lying on the ground. If anything the speed runner is one harassing the party, and I do my best to put a stop to that.

...what you are doing is reportable and at least would be suitable grounds to vote kick (you are grieving)....

It is not griefing to let the foolish speed runner suicide themselves. They can report whatever they like but the evidence will be plain as day. They can try vote kick too, but usually people will reject it. And if it a dps trying that vote kick stunt, usually someone will turn around and vote kick them out and I get 2 commendations at the end of it all.

....
If people really don't want to speed run then you are allowed to kick the person who is trying to force you to do so, the devs specifically said you were allowed to kick people based on a difference in play style. ...

You people sure love to play forum lawyers. But whatever. I never start the vote kick, unless someone is actually being a troll, afk, or offline. Speed runners can be slowed down a bit when necessary and you don't need to resort to vote kick. Playstyle difference is borderline vote kick abuse, and I'd rather not abuse the vote kick.

....
group don't want to speed run yet they don't have the patience to wait for a new tank or healer?
...

If the speed runner wasn't silent and communicated at the start, we'd have an agreement at the speed everyone would be comfortable with and it wouldn't even have been an issue. But since they forced the issue, I am with my rights to disrupt the speed run by letting the speed runner sacrifice themselves. At this point they can choose to leave or they can work the with rest of us who are not speed running.

...
Bottom line, you don't fix jerks by being a jerk yourself. It's as simple as that, you may think you have a solution here but you're only creating more problems.
...

I am not trying to fix the jerks, I am just trying to play the hand I am dealt the best I can. I am not creating problems by show people effective ways to disrupt the speed runner. And the person stopping the bully will always be a jerk to the bully, but that is not my problem. I don't earn commendations for stopping the bully by being a jerk.

...if anyone is being a bully, its you. "he doesnt play how i like, so im going to let him die over and over until he does" is pretty much what this post says. ...

Getting in the way of the bully so they can not speed run and run roughshod over everyone else is NOT being bully. Sharing tactics and strategy to countering them an their antics is also not being a bully. It is just simply those of us who are sick and tired of being used and abused getting the tools we need to counter them.

I don't hate the speed run and I do NOT go on the DF looking to botch every speed run out there. I am not insane and do not have the infinite time for that. But I do go into the DF with awareness that there are those who may not want to speed run, may not be able to speed run, or not experienced enough to speed run and we need to look out for them. The silent speed runner goes in there with the single minded goal to speed run, come hell or high water, and this where we need to use whatever tools we got to stop them.

If the speed runner so much as communicated properly and effectively, then there would be no problems but they do not want to even spend the time and effort to do that. The OP's way of communicating "object or else its a speed run" is the wrong method for communication, because all it takes is people not seeing the question, people not responding, or anything else that gets in the way that causes communication failure to cause a party wipe. And further more do not use a flawed communicaiton method to abuse and bash the new/newer players.

[Ghishlain]

I'll keep this short and sweet, NyarukoW

Pro Tip: Just because you want the last word doesn't mean you're right.

Pro Tip: Just because it's not wrong in your mind doesn't mean your vigilante tactics aren't harassing other players.

Pro Tip: Broadly painting every person under the swathe of paint doesn't garner any favours, namely:

• All raiders aren't non-inclusive elitest jerks
• Early pulls in hunts aren't always caused by trolling players
• All speed runners aren't trying to wipe their party and are certainly not bullies like you paint them all out to be

Just an FYI, I think I ran into your main the other day. Two FC mates and myself were on voice chat and doing Brayflox HM (WAR SCH BRD). We got another BRD in our group. We ran off and did the normal speedrun pull, BRD followed by did absolutely nothing to assist in the kill, just stood there and watched.

So we burned some time to get to the five minute mark, killing the Rafflesia pull and the Colibris. They eventually logged off I guess, knowing what we were going to do.

If that wasn't you, well, at least you can take solace in the fact that at least someone else does admire your work *Shrugs*

Tata/

[shape]

You need to take your self righteous ass down a few notches NyarukoW. you intent is good, the way your implementing it is plain wrong. You really need to look at the amount of posts against you and think maybe just maybe i'm not 100% right.

and if you are not grieving then why do your descriptions match with some of these definitions.

1. Purposefully sabotaging your teammates in an online game. The speed runner may be in the wrong but deliberately getting them killed makes you the one the law/GM would ban

2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual repeatedly or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game. Again applies to both SR but you turned it on yourself I've been a GM for another MMO and I would be forced to take the SR side.

3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics. More of the what i said above, seeing the pattern?