So I was kicked from Halatali today

[KisaiTenshi]

I still think that it was out of line to kick you given what you shared about your situation. The majority of my comments about healers contributing to party DPS are aimed squarely at players who choose to be obstructive out of sheer laziness or because they believe that their role entitles them to doing less "work".

The main point where I think we differ is that I believe that healer DPS is compulsory rather than icing, at least where the player is capable and not otherwise unable to provide it due to strict healing requirements. Providing DPS to a party is part of your basic role even if it does admittedly take a backseat to your primary responsibility of healing.

It's by no means compulsory otherwise the dungeons would be designed harder and grindier. I keep telling you guys this, that's why FFXIV is the way it is and not a RNG-Damage-Spam zerg-fest. There are people in this thread who think just because a healer isn't healing, they should be damage spamming. It's not the healers role to take up the slack of the DPS.

In the low-level dungeons it feels agonizingly slow to do when the tank is ill-equipped and basically loses half it's HP on every hit. That is reality. If you luck out and get an overgeared tank, they may actually last the 5 seconds required to switch in and out of Cleric stance. Otherwise it's entirely pointless for the healer to DPS because the time spent waiting results in weak heals and slow damage. In Halitali, you know the tank will last longer without heals if you get rid of the adds, which you can do faster than the melee DPS.

It's all situational, but a healer is under no obligation to "help DPS" otherwise the dungeon design would enable it. The only places in any dungeon where the Healer could "help" DPS are when the Boss is invulnerable, and the adds do not attack the players even when they have hate. A healer doesn't need to make up for weak DPS on trash mobs. Figure out if the Tank will last 10 seconds without a heal and then decide if it's worth risking the tank die just to fire off two DPS skills in that 5 seconds. If you know the battle, then you know the answer. Most low-level DF queues you can expect one player to be a write-off, just hope it's not the tank.

[Drachelanze]

That the dungeon is not designed around healer damage doesn't take away from its value. Since it isn't required, it's icing on the cake, i.e. you are now going through the dungeon quicker than intended. It's not about picking up slack, it's about adding to the pot. This is a good thing.

It's one thing for a player to be lacking in experience, unable to identify good times to contribute more to the run. This hugbox mentality that is promoting poor play and not pushing them to learn and do better is what is truly disturbing. If they did not want healers to have some form of damage output, Cleric Stance would not exist.

I don't know how any healer could put up with only healing anyway. I would have bored myself to death leveling WHM and SCH if I had not stance danced my way to 50 and beyond.

[Cynfael]

snip.

- Dungeon design enables healers to DPS just fine, as do healer mechanics.

- Why would you ever suffer weak heals? The whole point of stance-dancing is to DPS while you do not need to heal, while you can maintain heals indirectly (e.g. ongoing HoTs or fairy Embrace), or when you're prepared to use Lustrate or Benediction.

- The only time you really risk a tank's life by disabling your heals is when you do not properly learn the fight. Even in dungeons it's the same mobs with the same AI every time; no trash mob is going to bust out a personal LB as soon as it sees you go CS. It's ridiculous to suggest that "keep tank safe" and "add DPS" are mutually exclusive actions.

- It's never about picking up slack for weak DPS; it's about playing well and helping your fellow players achieve objectives. If standing around waiting for people to need healing before you lift a finger is fun for you, then I can't help. Sadly we don't complete duties by blowing mobs up with heals, but with DPS; what makes healers so special that they should be the only role in the game not to contribute as they are able?

[Iagainsti]

Holy crap, this thread am I right?
Anyway, back to the pioint before you all whipped it out and started whizzing everywhere, OP queued for Halatali NM as a healer. Stone II has a potency of 170, aero a potency 0f 50/dot 40 I think.

x=(WD*.2714745 + INT*.1006032 + (DTR-202)*.0241327 + WD*INT*.0036167 + WD*(DTR-202)*.0010800 - 1) * (potency/100) take into fact time to swap CS/heal every 4-5GCD, swap back. AVG mob pack of 3(x)

This guy got kicked bc he didn't do 66dps. That's messed up no matter how you look at it. Get your heads checked elitists. I've 3 man Halatali no prob, and that's all his party prob did afterwards, sad times really. poor guy.

Still stand by this^^

[Byonka]

I have Blizzard2 as my earliest available cross skill so that I can pretend I'm holying in the low dungeons. :C

[Seaverin]

OP you should have /report them that was your mistake. Healers are not DPS, don't listen to some of these people. DPS is not a healer's job, your job is to keep players alive and revive them.

[Lyzern]

OP you should have /report them that was your mistake. Healers are not DPS, don't listen to some of these people. DPS is not a healer's job, your job is to keep players alive and revive them.

Yet another underperformer joins the discussion. It's ok to not be as useful as others, just know that a healer that helps deal damage is 200% more useful than one who doesn't, as was proven by 15 pages of discussion.

[Lyzern]

Calculations and stuff

I've no idea how much 66 DPS means compared to the other DDs in the group, as I don't use parses or DPS addons, and since we don't know the exact HP of the monsters, we also can't really assume much with this info. Either way, for the sake of argument: If the Halatil run lasted 20 mins (Probably longer, as those dungeons are painfully slow), 66 DPS would be the same as 79,600 damage. So no, he didn't get kicked for not doing 66 dps, he got kicked for not doing 79,600 damage.

We've all stated opinions and obviously if a healer isn't comfortable dealing damage, he shouldn't, but check your math before you call others elitists. 79,600 damage is a lot of damage.

[aerialrave]

Your inexperience shows if you refuse to do any sort of DPSing, especially if the tank is highly geared and not taking much damage. It really slows down the run a lot if you stand there doing nothing. It's also terrible if you're overhealing (tank has lost 200 HP, you heal him for 400).

I don't think you should be kicked for it, but at the same time, nobody will want to play with you if you're "that guy".

Seriously I main DPS and I'm trying White Mage myself. It's really not that hard to drop a couple of Aeros and Stones every once in a while.
Nobody is demanding you to go into Cleric Stance, although toggling it on and off is actually the "pro" thing to do.

Try putting Aero one time on every mob that gets targetted. Without using Cleric Stance. See how drastically better that one simple step improves your runs by.

I hate to be the one to say it but we have reached a point in the game where healers are expected to deal some damage, even though it is not their main task. If you are not comfortable doing so then perhaps this role is not for you, and you would be better served sticking to your DPS classes. Nobody says healing is easy mode in this game. It isn't.

[Cynfael]

OP you should have /report them that was your mistake. Healers are not DPS, don't listen to some of these people. DPS is not a healer's job, your job is to keep players alive and revive them.

This position is strangely common on the forums, and I'm still waiting for (but not expecting) a reasonable answer to the logical, oft-repeated follow-up question:

While you are not needing to heal or revive anyone, what exactly are you doing?

Hint: the following answers are invalid...

- Hoarding my MP as if it were gold.

- Keeping my GCD free so that I cannot somehow be surprised by the next highly-predictable damage spike.

- Checking my Facebook or other social media.

- Dozing while on auto-follow.