Pro tip: Tell me you're new to a dungeon /rant

[Mugiawara]

Or they could just be on, you know... a PS4 and not having a real keyboard attached and don't feel like bothering trying to use the crappy on screen keyboard as you start running your speedrun because they were on the middle of typing and had to run and catch up with you...

Glad you could use your brilliant powers of assumption.

When I was on PS3, I bought a $10 Keyboard...so..
If anything, make a macro and say
"I'm new" and there we go.

[Amenian]

But the question is, is it sarcasm? Sarcasm isn't easily expressed through text. Maybe you're the one misinterpreting things? I doubt that the OP would contradict himself.

Seriously? How can you not tell that's sarcasm?!?

[Pandastirfry]

Sheesh... Seriously,

IT IS COMMON COURTESY TO SAY YOU ARE NEW TO A DUNGEON!

IT IS COMMON COURTESY TO ASK IF A SPEED RUN IS OKAY IN DF!

Both side of the op failed these aspects of common courtesy. /thread

[Edellis]

"Farm runs, have clear experience, multiple runs for loot"

*FULL PARTY*

**You will be awarded 100 Sol for completing this quest**

- Proceed to wipe
- #PFlyfe


I'm all for newbies learning. I'm all for giving you the chance to get first clear in our "FARM" party, if you're a competent player with bad DF luck.

But if you have the nerve to join a party that's specifically asking for NOT YOU to join, and then try to slip past me when i ask who you are, we're leaving the duty, i'm finding out who you are, and you're getting kicked.

[ExKage]

"Farm runs, have clear experience, multiple runs for loot"

*FULL PARTY*

**You will be awarded 100 Sol for completing this quest**

- Proceed to wipe
- #PFlyfe


I'm all for newbies learning. I'm all for giving you the chance to get first clear in our "FARM" party, if you're a competent player with bad DF luck.

But if you have the nerve to join a party that's specifically asking for NOT YOU to join, and then try to slip past me when i ask who you are, we're leaving the duty, i'm finding out who you are, and you're getting kicked.

.../wrong thread?

[Edellis]

No...different situation, along the same lines though.

I don't see how much trouble can come from someone new to a dungeon though. Assuming they're over 50, there's only so bad you can be.

[AdamFyi]

Is it really hard to admit, "Damn, I messed up. I should've tried talking more to make sure we'd all have the best experience." ?

The point isn't that all speedruns are bad, all tanks are bad, all newbies must say they're new. The point is that a little more communication would have been much better in the long run and that assumptions shouldn't be made. From both sides yes.

What are you talking about? I've been pro-communication from the start.

I just want players who are unfamiliar and new with the dungeon to speak up so that I can explain mechanics of the bosses if need it be and at the same time slow down the pace of the dungeon so that they can take in the information at a good pace rather than have it be all jumbled up and them running around like a headless chicken. It's better to say so earlier when asked than to do so later after doing something you weren't meant to do so that we can avoid any conflicts within the party.

If a player can't even answer that simple question, then are they a vegetable? You give new players less credit than what they deserve. They can speak for themselves. They're not as stupid as you are implying. I'm being serious here. All it takes is to speak up - communicate - the entire point of a multiplayer game.

What I'm requesting for is for players to answer when asked and for players to take the initiative and speak up. Otherwise we end up in the same situation of players just slinging insults at each other just like what's happening in this thread.

---

Seriously? How can you not tell that's sarcasm?!?

Because if he were being completely sarcastic, something like this would happen if you were to remove the sarcasm:

That being said, it's simply not AMAZING how nonsensical this thread has become. When I originally made my post I had an idea that typing "yes I'm new, please go easy" was so difficult. I mean, I don't do it ALL the time when I try something for the first time, and guess what? I don't get HELP from the vets! Go figure? And what do I do if someone rages? I don't quit. I'm better off with that person in my game.

Bolded text for clarity. See how it makes no sense? It goes against his beliefs. And just so you know, the OP capitalised a few words to put emphasis on them to show the tone in his voice - not to indicate sarcasm. Capitalised words do NOT necessarily indicate sarcasm. See what I did there? Now, judging by how you reply, I'll just assume that you just want to pick a fight. So, I won't stoop to your level. No use talking to a brick wall, right? Adieu~

---

IT IS COMMON COURTESY TO SAY YOU ARE NEW TO A DUNGEON!

IT IS COMMON COURTESY TO ASK IF A SPEED RUN IS OKAY IN DF!

I think this sums everything up quite nicely. Communication is the key. End of story.

[Amenian]

Because if he were being completely sarcastic, something like this would happen:

Um what? Are you being intentionally obtuse here or are you really this clueless? What you edited his post to say is just stupid, not satirical whereas what he actually said was obvious sarcasm. Are you sure you know what sarcasm even means?

Bolded text for clarity. Now, judging by how you reply, I'll just assume that you just want to pick a fight. So, I won't stoop to your level. No use talking to a brick wall, right? Adieu~

Oh right. I should have expected this. Oh boo hoo, someone called me out on my stupid. I'm going to passive aggressive act like he doesn't bother me so people will jump to my defense. I'm such a victim. Boohoohoo! (This is called mocking sarcasm by the way, one of many forms of sarcasm!)

[Nyalia]

I used to think you shouldn't SR as a tank unless the healer says it's okay. Then I started tanking my way through the Zodiac quest and running the early 50 dungeons a lot. 95% of the time that I asked, the response was either silence (which meant yes in those cases, obvious from context/gear) or "please" (or, quite often, "oh god please yes, I'm sick of this [censored]"). Most people doing those dungeons were in the same boat as me, or reasonably similar - people going for Zodiac drops or Animus book clears. 90% of the "first time player" bonuses were people running alts through the dungeons for the first time and they wanted to get them done as fast as possible just like anyone else (though they were in worse gear than others). The very few times we had a truly new person in the party, they still wanted to go as fast as possible (except, they liked having bosses explained, which was fine). The only times going fast wasn't okay was when the healer was new, and in those cases, I just pulled half the map instead of the entire map. Or, if the AoE DPS was high enough, I still did the usual pulls if Hallowed Ground was on CD. The healer couldn't keep up, but didn't have to with HG up, and if the DPS was high enough, enough of the mobs were dead before the healer needed to actually heal.

What I started doing, rather than asking and waiting for a response, which 95% of people found irritating (when you run a dungeon 10x in a row and it takes only 12 minutes, spending 2 minutes checking with people about SRing was a substantial waste of time), I would ask while doing the first pull. If someone felt strongly about it, they could respond, but more likely, I'd find out at the first pull how they felt. If we wiped on the first pull because the heals just weren't enough, or the DPS was so low the mobs took forever to die resulting in attrition killing us, then you pull slower next time and take the dungeon a bit more carefully. You don't blame people, you don't make a scene when a wipe happens, but you also don't need to take it slow by default. Most people don't want that, and that's forcing most people to play in a way they don't want to play, and not necessarily for any reason.

So, as a tank in the early 50s dungeons, go fast if you can, but if you die, don't say stuff like "omg, where were the heals?" or "I used CDs, wtf" or "wtf dps" or anything like that. It serves no purpose, creates a hostile environment, and slows everything down while people type angry responses. Just go "haha, sry, I'll take it slower" or "ah well, was worth a shot!" or "my bad, let's do this" or something that doesn't assign blame to other people.

And, if you get the new player notice, you don't have to take it slow (unless they're a healer, then that depends, use your judgment), but you should ask if they're an alt. If they don't respond, assume they're not. The only difference is, if you have a new player, explain the bosses or important non-boss mechanics (CPM HM - kill first big guy, ignore the rest, jump in the elevator; don't attack the mobs in the miner bit, just stand near the rocks, kill the rocks, and run through to the boss asap, etc).


The best part about SRing, even with new players, is that it's fun. If you disagree, you are welcome to, but while there is a very vocal minority of anti-speedrunners on the forums, that's not representative of what I've personally seen in game. The vast majority of players (new and experienced) that I've run with are totally fine with SRing, and the ones who talk prefer it and/or find it makes the dungeons much more fun.

[ExKage]

What are you talking about? I've been pro-communication from the start.
I think this sums everything up quite nicely. Communication is the key. End of story.

My point was really that the OP was placing all of the blame on the players not saying anything and he's not shown that he's willing to accept that part of the bad experience was on him as well. It wasn't necessarily directed towards your beliefs but a facetious reply that the answer is not always binary.


I've met a lot of people who are absolutely terrified in dungeons to speak up, because just like in real life people are afraid to point attention towards themselves. Saying "yeah I'm new" points a big target at them. It's painfully obvious that people are new but they are either pulled through the mud or they get mud thrown at them. Many of my roulette runs start without me getting a stoneskin up on everyone and I don't even get to adlo the tank before a pull. "Hi" and then run. No time for anyone to even start mentioning that they are new. At that point the process goes to "oh crap I can't get left behind!"

Edit: For me, I've always had better results by seeing how fast a few of the mobs are dying and if a new player bonus comes up, just explaining the fight. If they tell me to stfu, then I know they don't need it and stfu. As a scholar, nothing annoys me more than a tank who doesn't watch how pulls go. It is not a pleasant experience healing a speedrun just because there is a black mage but the things die slowly and cooldowns aren't used properly. Or things die slowly, and your party members have taken the time to try and give advice to the black mage WHO ACCEPTS THE ADVICE that they shouldn't Fire III spam and then Blizzard III spam. And the tank has run off to start pulling things by himself. I'm not going to let tanks die when they do this, but it starts to sour the mood for your healer if you do stuff like that.