Pure RNG is the worst thing ever.

[LaylaTsarra]

I refuse to believe someone could be dumb enough to think RNG makes anything fair or even.
There's nothing fair about gettings something in 16 hours that someone else got in 1 minute.

No need to call anyone dumb. You can make a point without name calling.

[Riepah]

No need to call anyone dumb. You can make a point without name calling.

They didn't call anyone dumb. They actually said they refuse to believe anyone could BE dumb enough to think such a thing. At worst, they're calling the person they quoted dishonest.

[Yukiko]

You have no idea what your talking about. # of people has no effect on your results. Please take a stats class or something.

I take stats class if you take programming class, deal?

The more people there are doesn't alter the RNG outcome.

We can discuss with formulas if you like, but then most of the others will quit discussion...

[LaylaTsarra]

They didn't call anyone dumb. They actually said they refuse to believe anyone could BE dumb enough to think such a thing. At worst, they're calling the person they quoted dishonest.

You're entitled to your view but sorry that is exactly what he did.

[Risvertasashi]

I refuse to believe someone could be dumb enough to think RNG makes anything fair or even.
There's nothing fair about gettings something in 16 hours that someone else got in 1 minute.

You have to consider it from a system designer's perspective. From a high level view... Say, for example, you design something to have a 2% drop rate, with a frequency that, on average, someone will get the drop after 3 hours of input. The statistics are the same for everyone. So to some, for example Hiroshi_Minagawa, this seems equal and fair.

The problem is we are, as you point out, individuals. To the individual experience, RNG can be very cruel. The typical case and bell curve distribution and all of that don't matter; what matters to a player is how their individual plot falls on the graph. And pure RNG not only can, but will, generate some very cruel player experiences.

[FranSeara]

I refuse to believe someone could be dumb enough to think RNG makes anything fair or even.
There's nothing fair about gettings something in 16 hours that someone else got in 1 minute.

Its FAIR because how else do you TEACH or TELL a computer to hand out items in a fair and even maner. The computer can't tell or deem who is worthy to receive items. RNG is the computer's form of FAIRNESS. This is coming from someone who has completed the Zodiac quest line 3 times. Some days you win,some days you lose. Remeber the Devs words "Not everyone will complete the relic quest"

[Pandastirfry]

RNG can be irritating...

But I'll take the 2 months of farming atmas pre-nerf and actually getting them, over the six YEARS of camping the monster signa in XI and never seeing it drop once.

I'm sure my character eventually got cancer from all the asbestos mitts she wound up with.

[Risvertasashi]

The computer can't tell or deem who is worthy to receive items.

Sure it can. PRNG and Token systems have both been used in online gaming to great effect, just as an example.

Computers do exactly what we instruct them to do. Normalizing outliers has been well within the capabilities of calculators from the time it was a job title rather than a piece of electronics.

Pure Mersenne Twister works, ish, but it's a bit antiquated nowadays.

[ziddyt]

Its FAIR because how else do you TEACH or TELL a computer to hand out items in a fair and even maner. The computer can't tell or deem who is worthy to receive items. RNG is the computer's form of FAIRNESS. This is coming from someone who has completed the Zodiac quest line 3 times. Some days you win,some days you lose. Remeber the Devs words "Not everyone will complete the relic quest"

The same way it does with all the non-rng aspects of this game? Tomes, seals, notes, etc. All that stuff requires even work to get the same reward (barring books), an even amount of which can be exchanged for different rewards at the same price across the board.
That's pretty damn "fair."

[Ashkendor]

The problem is we are, as you point out, individuals. To the individual experience, RNG can very cruel. The typical case and bell curve distribution and all of that don't matter; what matters to a player is how their individual plot falls on the graph. And pure RNG not only can, but will, generate some very cruel player experiences.

Yeah... the cases we hear about (the people running 100+ times and not getting it, the ones getting it 1/1) are statistical outliers. We hear about those because they are at the extreme ends of the curve. In the middle are all those people that got it in a reasonable enough number of tries that they didn't see anything extraordinary about it.