Pure RNG is the worst thing ever.

[ziddyt]

Yes, It can be said we all hate RNG. My personal rule with RNG is '"If I dont get something after the first or second try, walk away and go do something else" RNG, should be everywhere in the game. Its the only thing that keeps things fair and even. This is including ALL RAIDS. IMO

I refuse to believe someone could be dumb enough to think RNG makes anything fair or even.
There's nothing fair about gettings something in 16 hours that someone else got in 1 minute.

[LaylaTsarra]

I refuse to believe someone could be dumb enough to think RNG makes anything fair or even.
There's nothing fair about gettings something in 16 hours that someone else got in 1 minute.

No need to call anyone dumb. You can make a point without name calling.

[Riepah]

No need to call anyone dumb. You can make a point without name calling.

They didn't call anyone dumb. They actually said they refuse to believe anyone could BE dumb enough to think such a thing. At worst, they're calling the person they quoted dishonest.

[LaylaTsarra]

They didn't call anyone dumb. They actually said they refuse to believe anyone could BE dumb enough to think such a thing. At worst, they're calling the person they quoted dishonest.

You're entitled to your view but sorry that is exactly what he did.

[Risvertasashi]

I refuse to believe someone could be dumb enough to think RNG makes anything fair or even.
There's nothing fair about gettings something in 16 hours that someone else got in 1 minute.

You have to consider it from a system designer's perspective. From a high level view... Say, for example, you design something to have a 2% drop rate, with a frequency that, on average, someone will get the drop after 3 hours of input. The statistics are the same for everyone. So to some, for example Hiroshi_Minagawa, this seems equal and fair.

The problem is we are, as you point out, individuals. To the individual experience, RNG can be very cruel. The typical case and bell curve distribution and all of that don't matter; what matters to a player is how their individual plot falls on the graph. And pure RNG not only can, but will, generate some very cruel player experiences.

[Ashkendor]

The problem is we are, as you point out, individuals. To the individual experience, RNG can very cruel. The typical case and bell curve distribution and all of that don't matter; what matters to a player is how their individual plot falls on the graph. And pure RNG not only can, but will, generate some very cruel player experiences.

Yeah... the cases we hear about (the people running 100+ times and not getting it, the ones getting it 1/1) are statistical outliers. We hear about those because they are at the extreme ends of the curve. In the middle are all those people that got it in a reasonable enough number of tries that they didn't see anything extraordinary about it.

[FranSeara]

I refuse to believe someone could be dumb enough to think RNG makes anything fair or even.
There's nothing fair about gettings something in 16 hours that someone else got in 1 minute.

Its FAIR because how else do you TEACH or TELL a computer to hand out items in a fair and even maner. The computer can't tell or deem who is worthy to receive items. RNG is the computer's form of FAIRNESS. This is coming from someone who has completed the Zodiac quest line 3 times. Some days you win,some days you lose. Remeber the Devs words "Not everyone will complete the relic quest"

[Risvertasashi]

The computer can't tell or deem who is worthy to receive items.

Sure it can. PRNG and Token systems have both been used in online gaming to great effect, just as an example.

Computers do exactly what we instruct them to do. Normalizing outliers has been well within the capabilities of calculators from the time it was a job title rather than a piece of electronics.

Pure Mersenne Twister works, ish, but it's a bit antiquated nowadays.

[ziddyt]

Its FAIR because how else do you TEACH or TELL a computer to hand out items in a fair and even maner. The computer can't tell or deem who is worthy to receive items. RNG is the computer's form of FAIRNESS. This is coming from someone who has completed the Zodiac quest line 3 times. Some days you win,some days you lose. Remeber the Devs words "Not everyone will complete the relic quest"

The same way it does with all the non-rng aspects of this game? Tomes, seals, notes, etc. All that stuff requires even work to get the same reward (barring books), an even amount of which can be exchanged for different rewards at the same price across the board.
That's pretty damn "fair."

[NyarukoW]

.... RNG is the computer's form of FAIRNESS. ....

Sorry, but just like a computer/program/software/alogrithm can not "tell or deem who is worthy", the RNG is not a substitute for fairness. Fairness is a human set policy that is beyond the realm of a Turing complete machine. RNG doesn't even begin to be fair or define fair.

The fairness that exist with a system that uses some RNG is that SE has let player chose to play by those same rules knowing that RNG dictate their odds to win loot.

The thing is, bottom line, there will always be two camps on this. One side likes to have unbounded RNG, often because they have been lucky and the other side which wants to have RNG bounded, so that RNG can only be early and never late. SE has both in play, but for some items it is unbounded RNG that frustrates those that want the drop to happen after X amount of tries/times.