Low probabilities of Triple Triad drops, big fish, etc. Grinds becoming unreal.

[DemonFury]

Please explain how RNG outcomes require a brain? It's not called mindless grinding for nothing, you know.

I spent 3 days playing the imperial guy in south mor dhona trying to get a giaus card and i did finally get it but you do not hear me in here complaining about how long it took.. so like i said if you cannot handle a grind and your one of those people who think things should just be handed to you without any work at all then please go somewhere else we have enough issues already without having to put up with yours.

[XiXiQ]

Y

I spent 3 days playing the imperial guy in south mor dhona trying to get a giaus card and i did finally get it but you do not hear me in here complaining about how long it took.. so like i said if you cannot handle a grind and your one of those people who think things should just be handed to you without any work at all then please go somewhere else we have enough issues already without having to put up with yours.

You've still failed to explain to me how this requires a brain.

Do you think you're smarter because it took you 3 days of grind? smarter than the person who spent 6 days on it? is the person who only played a handful of games before getting it smarter than you? How come someone had to put in no work, someone did what you did, and yet someone else had to put in twice the effort you did for the exact same outcome?

The problem is people who actually HAVE brains would like to engage them to better their outcomes, and that's not an option.

[Kimura410]

I spent 3 days playing the imperial guy in south mor dhona trying to get a giaus card and i did finally get it but you do not hear me in here complaining about how long it took.. so like i said if you cannot handle a grind and your one of those people who think things should just be handed to you without any work at all then please go somewhere else we have enough issues already without having to put up with yours.

yeah but the problem is that the vast majority of this game is gated behind rng and its getting old. sometimes, there should be a safeguard. like "ok, i cant get gaius to drop, but if i beat him 300 times, its 100%". why cant this be a thing? the person put the time in, they deserve it. theres a guy right now whos beaten imperial 500+ times and still hasnt gotten gaius. he posted on reddit and had like 350 cards. thats not counting the times he won and didnt get a card.

im sure if you were in his shoes, youd cry about it too. its not getting handed to you, its putting in a ton of time and getting what you deserve. if anything, rng is what hands things to people by giving it to them on their first try sometimes. thats why i prefer the light farming, the zeta grind, animus books....bc you are working towards something guaranteed, even if it takes a long time. leave the rng to rare mounts and lotteries, but when it comes to being able to progress in a certain facet of content, it should involve very little rng, if any at all

[ziddyt]

logic

Exactly this. But things won't ever change, because the majority people have fooled themselves into thinking MMOs shouldn't be enjoyable, just a thing you become addicted to and go through the motions with until you finally get whatever newest thing is gated behind mindless grind. When it isn't this way, people complain (see: what SE turned relic quests into after people complained about the Titan wall).

And these people won't engage you with actual logic, they'll just resort to insults and rhetoric. Either you're a whiner that wants everything handed to you or "at least it's not as bad as that even worse game," as if that's any defense. They won't acknowledge that there's an alternative or something in-between hand-outs and extreme rng grind. I'm not going to pretend lights or alex were fun, but at least it wasn't disheartening and completely demotivating as you went through, because when you puts hours of work in, you got hours worth of return. You didn't have to stand by and get nothing, while you watched other people succeed for little to no effort. God forbid you want to be on an even ground with people, that equal work provides equal reward, because "life just isn't fair."

This isn't life. It's a game.

[Purrfectstorm]

Exactly this. But things won't ever change, because the majority people have fooled themselves into thinking MMOs shouldn't be enjoyable, just a thing you become addicted to

On this note, I've been seriously considering the idea that I'm addicted to FFXIV. I know people throw out the word "addicted" all the time to mean "I really, really like something" but in this case, I mean it literally. On patch day, I played for 17 hours straight and just felt terrible. My body hurt, I didn't eat or sleep right, nor have enough to drink. I feel compelled to do dailies/weeklies because of "efficiency" and I kill myself to do every stupid grind SE puts in front of me. I don't even feel like a person sometimes, just a rat pressing a button stimulating the pleasure center of my brain over and over until I die.

I've been doing some research on addiction lately and it seems like nearly any kind of addiction causes actual physiological changes in the brain. I feel like something like this has happened to me when I think about all the hours doing something unfun for some reward. Then I get the reward and it's like ding, ding, pleasure center lights up. It's even killed my enjoyment of other things. The good news is that I've read that life and your enjoyment of other activities can return after a time if you give up your addiction. Today I saw a professional about this and talking about my gaming habits made me admit what I've already known for a while, I have a problem.

I think I'm probably going to quit FFXIV and try to get well again. I'm not sure I can simply cut back as I've tried that before and end up back in the exact same boat. On the other hand, it's so difficult when I think about my FC and all my online friends and all the things I'll be missing, plus all the time I've put in. I guess it wouldn't be an addiction if quitting was easy

I think MMOs can be designed in a way that is less addictive (less emphasis on daily/weekly content, longer relevancy of gear, more reasonable "grinds") but sadly I think that addicted players are worth big bucks to developers.

[XiXiQ]

but sadly I think that addicted players are worth big bucks to developers.

and also sadly, I suspect those angry "Oh! You want everything handed to you with no work!" people are the real addicts. In actuality, the only people doing no "work" are the few who happen to get lucky and only need to do the content once or a handful of times. Only an addict would think it's just fine to do the same content 100+ times for a CHANCE of being rewarded. Desynth the the worst possible example of this I have ever seen. Grind the mats, grind the crafts to hand in... for a very low chance at a demi/mc.

Einstein had it spot on. The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I am at the stage now when I expect nothing, and am quite right on this outcome 99+% of the time.


Go out into the world and enjoy Good luck to you.

[DemonFury]

theres a guy right now whos beaten imperial 500+ times and still hasnt gotten gaius.

problem is you can get gaius through other means such as preatorium boss drop so its not like he had to stand there and win all those matches just to try to get giaus, and on teh other hand he did not come out of it empty handed i calculated you can use that same guy to farm mgp at estimating you win 8/10 games 6.5k - 7.5k mgp per hour off of that very npc and the 350 cards that can be exchanged for mgp on top of it all which at its lowest he gets 3500 from those but lets calculate 500 win its 30 mgp per hand you lose so you win 90 mgp per hand which comes out to 45k mgp won from the npc plus teh card turn ins about on average 50k mgp so again its not like he did not have any choices and he did not walk away with nothing.

[Aeyis]

I spent 3 days playing the imperial guy in south mor dhona trying to get a giaus card and i did finally get it but you do not hear me in here complaining about how long it took.. so like i said if you cannot handle a grind and your one of those people who think things should just be handed to you without any work at all then please go somewhere else we have enough issues already without having to put up with yours.

Bad example. The Gaius card (from the NPC) has the least RNG involved with it out of all 5 (and even 4 star) cards. And the most actual grind involved.

nothing like some of teh original mmos like say RO which did not drop money in any way shape or form you had to gather items sell them or npc them to get your money and save it all i ever see in new mmos is how people think that this stuff shoudl just be handed to them without any real work ...

Another bad example. In Ragnarok Online the system used % chance on all of its item drops, not RNG.
If a drop had a listed 5% chance to drop, you would actually receive closer and closer towards that 5% the more mobs you killed. And with as high as a 5% chance you would reach that accuracy pretty fast.
You grinded a mob that could drop Elu at a 5% chance? Well, you kill 300 and you would have 6~ with a very low SD (standard deviation).

Btw, come talk to me about real work when you've soloed Niff2 as a level 67 hunter all the way to 99. Before you could even ascend in the game.
If you are going to be condenscending, do it better. Like me.

[Bluejay]

I spent 3 days playing the imperial guy in south mor dhona...

Triple Triad isn't grinding. The game requires thought. It is also the type of game like poker that requires you to apply skill everytime you play no matter how good you get. Have you ever heard of anyone call poker or a game like PacMan grinding? Game play that requires no skill or thought on the part of the player is grinding. It's not repetition that is the problem. The problem is repeating content that requires no real decisions from the player.

Fishing is grinding. Press button 1. Press button 2. Press button 1. Press button 2. Press button 1. Press button 2... Assuming proper gear, nothing I can do as a player will increase or decrease the chance of catching a fish. Low level dungeons fall are the same for progressed players. They disable abilities and require players to go BACKWARDS in skill level.

[Nasibihc]

Triple Triad isn't grinding.

Sorry, but that made me laugh.