@dev team ->> Thanks for bringing back party grinding, -really-

[Kallera]

In party grinding, what is the amount of exp/mob people go for a good grinding pt? What number range?

[Wolfie]

Wrong.

In party grinding your XP is entirely dependent on your party's skill and coordination. In guildleves/quest grind your skill gain is determined by how fast you can whack moles, and run between quest givers. Which one takes more skill? The answer is obvious.

It doesn't matter how good a quest grinder whack-a-mole player is at their job, it won't show when compared to someone who is completely clueless as long as that person doesn't get lost running between the moles and the quest giver.

Grinding monsters in a party is not more skill demanding than killing them solo, because grind parties deliberately look for the lowest risk, highest reward mobs to grind on. Questing, on the other hand, actually forces you into situations you might not be familiar with, fighting monsters you've never fought before, and you're completely alone. You CAN have difficult questing; WOW did a long, long time ago, and so do some typical WOW clones.

Take off your rosy nostalgia glasses for a moment and really think about how leveling went in FFXI. I died less and was challenged less than in any other MMO I've played. The cost of dying or making a mistake was so steep, that people made it a point to stick to the weakest, easiest to kill monsters. Your exp/hour wasn't determined by the skill of your group, it was determined by your gear, your party makeup, and if you picked the weakest mobs to grind on.

[Murugan]

Grinding monsters in a party is not more skill demanding than killing them solo, because grind parties deliberately look for the lowest risk, highest reward mobs to grind on. Questing, on the other hand, actually forces you into situations you might not be familiar with, fighting monsters you've never fought before, and you're completely alone. You CAN have difficult questing; WOW did a long, long time ago, and so do some typical WOW clones.

Take off your rosy nostalgia glasses for a moment and really think about how leveling went in FFXI. I died less and was challenged less than in any other MMO I've played. The cost of dying or making a mistake was so steep, that people made it a point to stick to the weakest, easiest to kill monsters. Your exp/hour wasn't determined by the skill of your group, it was determined by your gear, your party makeup, and if you picked the weakest mobs to grind on.

No people do that exact same thing when questing. They go for least risk for the highest reward, so your entire argument doesn't work. If you didn't then you simply weren't caring about your xp rate in which case why do you have to argue against people getting good xp for grouping?

The difference is even in a "low risk" situations (which aren't the best XP) good xp is determined by a good party, while soloing grind quests is only determined by one person's capability and quest grouping/ proximity to the quest giver. So even in "high risk" solo questing (extremely rare in MMO's) it is still less risk and effort than it takes doing similar level content in a party. So people should be rewarded for party content. WoW and most clones are just lacking in good enough party content to level on, FFXI had that. A lot of people liked FFXI because that.

[Doho]

i don't post much here anymore, because I feel like my words are generally drowned in a sea of mass hysteria. HOWEVER, I do want to state that I am VERY happy SP grinding is on the rise. I haven't played so much in quite a while

Nothing feels my little taru heart with joy more than raking in 32k+ at an Ixali Camp with some of my best buds. Hurry up with those chains guys!! LET'S GO DEV TEAM!

[Serio]

In party grinding your XP is entirely dependent on your party's skill and coordination. In guildleves/quest grind your skill gain is determined by how fast you can whack moles, and run between quest givers. Which one takes more skill? The answer is obvious.

It doesn't matter how good a quest grinder whack-a-mole player is at their job, it won't show when compared to someone who is completely clueless as long as that person doesn't get lost running between the moles and the quest giver.

This is somewhat true, but only if your party is fighting mobs like 15 levels above it. The reason I say that is because I can solo mobs 10 levels above myself (even still after 1.18). I can honestly say that it takes less coordination in a party than it does soloing. Definitely less actions are involved. This is especially true for leves if you actually set the difficulty high. The whole point of creating a party is to make things less difficult for better rewards. Go solo a guildleve where the mobs are 10-12 ranks above yourself and you'll see what i'm talking about.

[Murugan]

This is somewhat true, but only if your party is fighting mobs like 15 levels above it. The reason I say that is because I can solo mobs 10 levels above myself (even still after 1.18). I can honestly say that it takes less coordination in a party than it does soloing. Definitely less actions are involved. This is especially true for leves if you actually set the difficulty high. The whole point of creating a party is to make things less difficult for better rewards. Go solo a guildleve where the mobs are 10-12 ranks above yourself and you'll see what i'm talking about.

If you do a r40 5 star guildleve fast enough you already get better XP than you would in that same time in a group, so I don't see your point. However after they revamp party XP in 1.2 and we have XP chains, party camps, and mobs designed not to be complete pushovers in parties for maximum XP that should give better XP because it is more difficult, and the only thing that should compare is a solo player should they be able to accomplish the same.

[Finuve]

"Quests" in WoW/Aion/etc have no right to be called quests, they are just directed grinds

it Killed Aion for me (WoW killed itself for me in other ways) I got to level 23 in Aion only grouping once for a mission that lasted 10 minutes, and other than that just spammed these dumb "quests" kill 10 of these gather 8 of these, they are no real difference to any other grind except they are solo, do 12 quests here gain a few levels move to next area do 15 quests gain a few levels move to next area

in XI its basically the same thing kill mobs here, gain a few levels move to next area, the big difference is that in XI you have to group, and grouping saves monotony and builds community

should other options be available? yes (though if i see text box popups telling me to gather 8 items and the game tries to call that a quest...) but grouping should ALWAYS be the most rewarding/fastest path in order for the community to build and prosper

Point: If an MMO does not constantly promote grouping in all aspects then the community dies

as an example, I spent 3 hours grinding in gusgen mines with an 18 person party in XI last night, we spent the entire party chatting and laughing, that alone makes group grinding better than "questing" and I now have three more people on my Flist, in XIV, i don't even have a linkshell yet

[darkstarpoet1]

"Quests" in WoW/Aion/etc have no right to be called quests, they are just directed grinds

it Killed Aion for me (WoW killed itself for me in other ways) I got to level 23 in Aion only grouping once for a mission that lasted 10 minutes, and other than that just spammed these dumb "quests" kill 10 of these gather 8 of these, they are no real difference to any other grind except they are solo, do 12 quests here gain a few levels move to next area do 15 quests gain a few levels move to next area

in XI its basically the same thing kill mobs here, gain a few levels move to next area, the big difference is that in XI you have to group, and grouping saves monotony and builds community

should other options be available? yes (though if i see text box popups telling me to gather 8 items and the game tries to call that a quest...) but grouping should ALWAYS be the most rewarding/fastest path in order for the community to build and prosper

Point: If an MMO does not constantly promote grouping in all aspects then the community dies

as an example, I spent 3 hours grinding in gusgen mines with an 18 person party in XI last night, we spent the entire party chatting and laughing, that alone makes group grinding better than "questing" and I now have three more people on my Flist, in XIV, i don't even have a linkshell yet

then, that in itself, is your issue. if you want to become part of the community then you have to reach out. they are not going to go out and beg you to join them. grinding parties have been happening in xiv since day 1 and still go on today.

[Rhianu]

in XI its basically the same thing kill mobs here, gain a few levels move to next area, the big difference is that in XI you have to group, and grouping saves monotony and builds community

Actually, the big difference is that in FFXI you're standing in one single spot for possibly two, three, or four hours without really moving at all, unless you're the puller, in which case you still only get to move like fifteen feet out from the party's camp, and you're just fighting the exact same mob over and over again ad nauseum. Plus, there's no storyline to experience while you're grinding away in an EXP party in FFXI.

FFXI has a great storyline, but the problem is that it's a totally separate activity from the level grind. In WoW, the storyline is combined into the level grind (which is actually how the offline FF games work as well), which makes the whole experience far more enjoyable.

And no, partying doesn't build community. Maybe on a few occasions it can help, but most of the parties I've been in people rarely speak at all, except perhaps to fire off their skillchain macros and such. But other than that, an EXP party in FFXI is usually dead silent; no communication at all. How can you possibly say that encourages community? How can there be community without communication?

I started playing FFXI at the NA PS2 release, and I continued to play the game for nearly seven years after that, and from what I saw it was Linkshells that formed the backbone of FFXI's community, not EXP parties.

[Lycanthroat]

Its starting to feel more like a game.

Now keep working on improving the classic camp and pull party setup.

And please delete/kill/eradicate the leve system, and the WoW quests, and the instanced dungeon crap.

Kthx.

i couldnt agree more !