Summoner and scholar should be split up.

[Eloah]

And finally, if I may speak bluntly can we drop the "because lore" excuses when the game itself goes through great lengths to completely go against its lore, proving that what characters tell us isn't absolute. Everyone thought Midgardsomr was long dead but look what happened. Everyone thought Primals had to be gods but the later trials proved otherwise (hell Odin doesn't even have followers, he's just a parasitic sword). The game itself has shown us that our knowledge of the world is not the end all be all.

I wouldn't say the game goes against its lore more like the lore is evolving. The world never stays the same, and in an MMO I would think the same thing. As for the inconsistencies of the primals I have my own theories on that.

Mostly we are lead to believe, even within the games lore, that the beastman tribes were made by their respected primals. However, my theory is that isn't true, kinda.my thoughts are that the primals didn't create the beastman, but the other war around, that the beastman actually created their primals, I'll explain. Currently, the races of man revere/Worship the Twelve, and mostly we've been told they actually existed, but were normal people. Now for the beastman, what if a similaf thing happened but to a greater extreme. The beastman tribes had a "hero" that after their passing they revered. But over time that reverence, or rather the reason for that reverense was lost and they began to worship that "hero" as a god. Well, now that they have the powerr to summon their god, their prayers that they had already done for so long actually give them form. In this sense the beastman actually created their god through reverence. Think of it like real world religions, like Christianity. It's said god created man, but we have no proof of an actual god existing, so by that sense we actually created the god we say created us. The same could be said of the beastman, regardless of a hero ever existing or not. And the newest Primals of Mog and Shiva actually support this a little since unlike the other Primals whose histories are a lot older their histories are relatively recent, enough to know that they did exist, at least in the current time line. Possibly in the future they'll exist in the same sense as all of the other primals. Of course this is only my theory, though I would like to think it holds some merit.

And as far as Midgardsormr is concerned, it's been hinted that he is a god/immortal, and was just born into a mortal form at one point, but since the player/scions didn't know this it makes sense they would just think he was dead. But this is only hinted at so if it's true or not remains to be seen.

[Eloah]

It's already been stated that gameplay comes first then lore fills in the gaps so Egi was a design choice not lore choice.

I agree that it was probably a design choice over a lore choice, though I would like to think that they structure the lore to fit with the designs. I'was just indicating that if you think about it it fits into the lore, which shows how well they integrated everything together, design and lore.

Actually the only two know requirements to summon a "primal" is prayer and aether. So techincally Enkidu is a summon.

This helps support my thoughts on the primals that I just explain. I think a better way to indicate what I meant was that while everyone else thought of him as a primal, gilgamesh didn't, because according to him they were merely seperated and Enkidu was still alive, to his and our knowledge. And as far as we know you must be dead to become a primal, even Louisoix died before becoming Phoenix. So it was debatable if he was a primal or just merely summoned by the crystals, like the aether shards we use to teleport. But it's a side story not much to worry about.

[FrejyaAthenes]

...I'm beginning to feel like we're on the same side here.

[Eloah]

Sounds like it, lol.

[Sequora]

The fact that they had a problem adjusting problems with SMN MP because they didn't want to effect scholar is the prime example of why the classes need to be split up. As long as scholar and summoner are tied to the same class, there is always going to be difficulty balancing the jobs. They've clearly realized this because they've said that they will no longer be doing dual jobs. The new jobs don't even have classes. I feel like SMN and SCH will always be red headed step children unless the two jobs are split up.

[Eloah]

The fact that they had a problem adjusting problems with SMN MP because they didn't want to effect scholar is the prime example of why the classes need to be split up. As long as scholar and summoner are tied to the same class, there is always going to be difficulty balancing the jobs. They've clearly realized this because they've said that they will no longer be doing dual jobs. The new jobs don't even have classes. I feel like SMN and SCH will always be red headed step children unless the two jobs are split up.

While that point seems valid, what source says they had an issue because of SMN connection to SCH. While it is true they share a lot and certain changes would possibly effect both, MP isn't or doesn't have to be one of them. By that logic a SCH Mind stat should such. The simplist change is to just make the soul crystal increase their MP, like the soul crystal does for the SCH Mind stat. While I am not a developer, even I know there are plenty of ways of adjusting one without affecting the other. Just look at the Resurrection issue.

[Able]

I don't see how they could address summoner without splitting the job. It's clear that summoner will be buffed somehow. If the jobs aren't decoupled, Scholar will be buffed too. That can't happen. They even said they'd never have a dual-job class again because of this issue.

[Bigcat9715]

While that point seems valid, what source says they had an issue because of SMN connection to SCH. While it is true they share a lot and certain changes would possibly effect both, MP isn't or doesn't have to be one of them. By that logic a SCH Mind stat should such. The simplist change is to just make the soul crystal increase their MP, like the soul crystal does for the SCH Mind stat. While I am not a developer, even I know there are plenty of ways of adjusting one without affecting the other. Just look at the Resurrection issue.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...uinruin_ii_mp/

[Cabalabob]

I disagree that SMN and SCH should be split up. In fact I have a much more radical idea that instead they should be combined completely into a hybrid healer/dps.

Here's how I see it.

Arcanist renamed to Scholar. Emerald carbuncle remade into a healer pet, topaz remain the same. All scholar abilities removed from the job and made into base class abilities throughout the levels. (Leeches at 30, adloquium at 35, succor at 40, sacred soil at 45, lustrate at 50) the base stat for scholar would be mind and would gain mind traits instead of intelligence through levelling. Cleric's stance removed from conjurer and given to scholar but can be cross classed by conjurer. Party bonus would be piety.

Now when advancing to summoner, your first skill learned would be summon 3 (ifrit) at 30, at 35 you would learn spur and your summon command would change emerald carbuncle into fairy (a combination of Eos and Selene. Having embrace, whispering dawn, silent dusk and fey illumination). At 40 you learn summon 4 (garuda). At 45 you learn restore (instantly heals your pet to full health and resets their cooldown timers. This would make for interesting pet swap opportunities like garuda > contagion > swiftcast > fairy > restore > fey illumination) and summon 2 would become titan. And at 50 you still get Enkindle. Fairy's enkindle would be fey light. Which would be modified into everything lost from Eos and Selene, skill speed and spell speed buff and 20% Magic defense bonus.

Now I'm sure some of you are asking where is fester and tri-disaster? SMN dps is suffering enough as it is. Well for the sake of duty finder the class and job would be considered a healer, as it is essentially scholar now with more dps and tank goodies on it's pets. It would be a healer that has the ability to dps very well but not as well as an actual dps. Hence no more fester. As for tri-disaster... I dunno give it to the base class somewhere if you must have it.

For cross class summoner would draw from conjurer and thaumaturge.

[Bigcat9715]

snip.

"I kinda like it."