Low probabilities of Triple Triad drops, big fish, etc. Grinds becoming unreal.

[Havenchild]

I spend 3 hours dueling a NPC just because I believed he might drop the Nanamo card.

Should have did research beforehand? You wasted time on your own accord. That has nothing to do with bad game design. What you fail to realize is RNG is what it is. There are those who have bad luck with it and feel it's unbalanced and those who think it's just fine as is and have had better luck with it. Who are you to decide whose more right in this situation? Just because you didn't have the "luck" doesn't mean it's broken.

The limitation is there to not allow the player to steamroll every NPC thus diminishing the value of the game quickly. Also idk how good or bad you are as a TT player but I didn't find the limitation overly limiting. I did feel 30 was harder to reach then maybe 25 in comparison to how many NPCs you could logically beat with skill, however many of the NPCs you can either beat with baiting or abusing their rules and those that you can't you come back later after your upgrade.

Several guides are also already posted for each NPC on how to beat them by manipulating their AI. Your struggling now more because of your lack of research vs myself who didn't have any of this information at the beginning. But who is complaining? The person who has the information at their hands, not the one who had to figure it out by themselves.

RNG in TT is present in basically 2 1/2 ways. Getting a card, Chaos ruleset and on a lesser tangent Random ruleset however random loses more of its RNG element as you, get many more powerful cards at your disposal. The only complaint anyone can rationally make about Chaos, is against Swift because even with all the cards at your disposal he can still trump you with pure power (Marcette at the lower end). Lets not forget the regional rules that rotate daily to make these NPCs that host Random and Chaos rulesets mountains easier.

"That's MMOs for ya, bro!" is a weak defense. Also, why do people always say "you just want everything handed to you?" when someone complains about something being too grindy. Apparently people think repeating simple tasks for long periods of time in the hopes of getting lucky equals "hard work". It's a fallacy. Downing difficult content might be considered "hard work", but to hear many people in this thread tell it, winning the Jumbo Cactpot is the epitome of skillful play. "I sure did a good job getting lucky on this lottery/drop/other thing!" Yeah, ok.

People accept that drop rates will never be 100%, because you can't get too crazy will the loot pinata, but saying 1% drop rates (for example) is ok says more about you than it does about them. I play the game because it's fun. I'll keep hopping into content once I have everything if I find the fight enjoyable (like most primal fights), whereas I suspect most of you who think 1% drop rates and grinds are cool will never touch a content ever again once you get the thing you wanted from it. The key to any game, of any genre, is fun. If you're not having fun, it may be you who is in the wrong genre of games, and I don't really see a point in telling people that they should just accept 1% drop rates because hey, getting really lucky is the most important thing and is far more richly rewarding than doing anything that involves any actual skill or thought.

So what if other games are more grindy? Saying this or that game is like this or that has absolutely no bearing on this game, how people feel about it, or how "right" or "wrong" those feelings are.

Often enough games that hand out things to you relatively quickly tend to die out at a much more alarming rate. Many newcomers to the MMO genre do not realize this. If you don't find it fun, then do not do it. Fun is also relative to the person. You may have fun grinding light simply because you love hearing Garuda's battle theme or have fun grinding a Siren card simply because you love Pharos Sirius.

Low and behold, you can also have fun with something and grind it, if you simply pace yourself.

Also the "That's MMO's for ya bro!!" comment you may not like but if you plan on succeeding in MMOs and enjoying them, you best accept it sooner then later otherwise you'll be very disgruntled during the play time your supposed to be having "fun" with as you say.

People in this thread do not feasibly accept that it's not 100% because if this they did, this very thread would not exist. My question to those is what is acceptable to you? Something you can obtain in less then 10 tries? How much of a % is ok if not 1%?

5%? Can you feel the difference or would you still call it 1%?

10%? Can you get it in less then 10 tries? What if you still can't beat a 10% chance? Does it still feel like 1% to you?

20%? 1 in 5 attempts, quick enough yet?

Once you go past 10%, you are getting into a zone where content can be completed very quickly in succession.

[Felis]

Why not just reward everyone fairly, maybe extend the grind to make up for RNG being gone? Or maybe reduce the essentialness of having good RNG luck, but make it still beneficial, as I explained about TSW's system in my previous post?

Like removing gears from dungeon chests and put tokens in them like in the ilevel90 dungeons? But without to roll for them, and everyone get one?
Because dungeon drop also combine grind with RNG.

[Xenor]

I swear, you people think this games grind is hard? Try PSO2 farming for 11/12* weapons and units, RO's atrocious drop rates... even the relic quest now isnt as bad as XI's.

"- Unable to catch Shonisaurus or Kuno the Killer (out of 4-5 30-45 min windows)."

I fkin lol'd.

There's a reason we aren't playing PSO2. This game will go the same way if SE continues down this path.

Those of us who work fulltime, have partners etc. have a finite amount of gaming time each week and to have it all wasted on grinds with no progress just feels like a waste of time.

I enjoy Triple Triad, I am at 40 cards which is probably above average. But I know that to enjoy it fully I will need 60 cards and right now the grind is reaching the point where I'm having to decide whether the potential fun of hitting 60 cards is worth the sacrifices it will require elsewhere. I shouldn't have to put in the equivalent of a fulltime job to make the game enjoyable.

Newsflash: It's 2015 not 1995 or 2003. Grindy MMORPGs are not liked any more.

The only people happy with these grinds are those who have no job, life commitments or anything that could stop them playing 16 hours a day. They love the grinds because if they weren't there they would run out of content after a couple of weeks and be bored. SE shouldn't be catering to this style of addictive gaming.

[Taban]

Fishing is totally an optional thing in this game...if you do not enjoy the thrill of finally catching that fish that has been haunting your nightmares for weeks then it is not the content for you and you should probably try to do something else. The RNG for fishing some of those hard fish is bad, but its for people who like that sort of thing.

Triple Triad Card drop rate I can attest with fact is not that bad so idk what you are doing that you are not winning cards. In one day I went from starter deck (plus one dungeon card) to having 27 cards, all of which I won off of npcs (I also barely knew what I was doing since I hadn't played TT since FF8 in like 1999). Today I started at around 35 cards and went up to 46 or something. All won from npcs save one I got Ahriman from Dzemael dungeon. Yes, my RNG might have been a tad better than some people, but that is way too many wins of cards for it to be just all luck. Sometimes I even went to an npc and got a card first win. (This wasn't like non stop TT all day either, I took breaks for eating, chores, other in-game activities, and even coil for like 3 hours)

As someone playing a lot of TT - you got very lucky with drops. Some of the 5 star drops are stupidly low (Gaius comes to mind). I don't necessarily think it needs to be nerfed hardcore, but some of them do feel a bit too low.

[Jynx]

Those of us who work fulltime, have partners etc. have a finite amount of gaming time each week and to have it all wasted on grinds with no progress just feels like a waste of time.

And some people with fulltime jobs, partners, kids, hobies other than XIV also don't mind the grind. Don't pretend just because you think it's not worth the time that others dont.

[DCILuther]

I never have any luck when it comes to rng/luck based things when it comes to games. It took me the most amount of time grinding for Atma amongst my FC members back then. Despite spending almost the same amount of time grinding.


As of now, I have ZERO progress on my Zodiac for TWO weeks now because despite running Hullbreaker and Amdapor Keep 2-4 times per night (the amount of time I have on weekdays, about 6-8 runs total per night) and whole day on both Sat and Sun, the dungeon drops I need to progress the quests, has not dropped. Meanwhile, I have folks telling me they ran at most 7 to 10 times before getting their drops. Yes I know it's "low" chance of dropping but this is just soul crushing for me.

I have spent most of my playtime queueing for these dungeons and trying to obtain these items, I have forgone leveling my Crafting and Gathering, having fun at the Gold Saucer or many other things the game has to offer. Is it my choice? Yes, of course, I can just ignore my relic ffs, but no, I have spent too much time and resources on it, I went broke trying to meld this thing. I'm broke again because of the crafted material.

[Miste]

As someone playing a lot of TT - you got very lucky with drops. Some of the 5 star drops are stupidly low (Gaius comes to mind). I don't necessarily think it needs to be nerfed hardcore, but some of them do feel a bit too low.

This is after having gotten these cards already also. This kind of luck is not possible I don't think? Seems like they have not bad drop rates.

This is me trying to get Gaius, which yes is a harder card to get, it is a 5 star card. OP is saying they could not get ANY cards though...
If you are going after a 5 star card then yes expect to spend a lot of time, I personally still do not have Gaius which is why right now I am here at Imperial trying to get it.

[Aeyis]

And some people with fulltime jobs, partners, kids, hobies other than XIV also don't mind the grind. Don't pretend just because you think it's not worth the time that others dont.

I dont mind the grind either, but that doesnt mean I have to argue for arguments sake and claim that a grind + heavy rng+ high difficulty is fine.

This is after having gotten these cards already also. This kind of luck is not possible I don't think? Seems like they have not bad drop rates.

This is me trying to get Gaius, which yes is a harder card to get, it is a 5 star card. OP is saying they could not get ANY cards though...
If you are going after a 5 star card then yes expect to spend a lot of time, I personally still do not have Gaius which is why right now I am here at Imperial trying to get it.

That just shows you are arguing without actually knowing the rates of the cards you are talking about. The imperial has a pretty high drop rate on both 2 and 3 star cards.
Higher then most npcs do in fact.
I've read what the OP said about not getting any cards at all. But I've also read not a single other person mentioning not getting any cards.

snip

I see you are done with pretending, and full out with insulting. No matter, I will respond properly to your reply.

There was no research, as noone actually knew.I did not waste my time, as the example was ment to illustrate how I do not mind grinding. If I did, would have I have fought that npc for 3 hours straight on the mere off chance of him having a card? No.


How good you are at TT or not, has nothing to do with this. As Kenji explained quite well already in another thread I believe: you will need to farm NPCs for their cards to reach 60. And some NPCs are simply too strong too farm.
This is where the rng comes in, since some might have gotten a rare card from defeating a npc once or twice, where the actual average rate might perhaps be 200 wins.
This is rather bad design, imo. Fighting these npcs is challenging, and rightfully so.
But to have their reward depend 100% on rng?

Several guides are also already posted for each NPC on how to beat them by manipulating their AI. Your struggling now more because of your lack of research vs myself who didn't have any of this information at the beginning. But who is complaining? The person who has the information at their hands, not the one who had to figure it out by themselves.

And more insults. I do not believe I mentioned struggling on any npc. (altho certain npcs are definately hard to defeat, by anyones standards) I would strongly advise you to actually read through peoples posts before you post your bile.

Lets not forget the regional rules that rotate daily to make these NPCs that host Random and Chaos rulesets mountains easier.

I believe you mentioned research? Well, if you had done more research you would know that certain npcs are unaffected by regional rules.

I rest my case.

People in this thread do not feasibly accept that it's not 100% because if this they did, this very thread would not exist. My question to those is what is acceptable to you? Something you can obtain in less then 10 tries? How much of a % is ok if not 1%?

We are not a mob, we are individual posters in here. There is no ''people in this thread''
Please dont make a complete fool out of yourself.

[myahele]

RNG is why I won't bother with relic anymore. There's no skill, just luck and I hate how relic is just a way to make high level players spam low-level content.

With that said, I do like how these cards drop in dungeons/trials. It atleast encourages me to do my daily roulette (and get gil) instead of igonoring them

[Miste]

That just shows you are arguing without actually knowing the rates of the cards you are talking about. The imperial has a pretty high drop rate on both 2 and 3 star cards.
Higher then most npcs do in fact.
I've read what the OP said about not getting any cards at all. But I've also read not a single other person mentioning not getting any cards.

1. If you look at my posts and actually read them I was never "arguing". I was saying that to me the drop rates do not seem that bad as to encourage people to maybe attempt more or different npcs to get more cards. Since I had a large sample size from multiple npcs I was trying to share my experience, yes others might not get as many cards but you'll likely obtain some.


2. If you look at my post I asked a question "This kind of luck is not possible I don't think? Seems like they have not bad drop rates". I appreciate the info that Imperial has a higher drop rate than other npcs, but in essence you are just doing what you are claiming I am doing, "arguing without knowing the rates of the cards". Where is the proof Imperial has higher drop rate than other npcs?


3. Refer to number 2, I said "Seems" like that have not bad drop rates, never did I say they factually have not bad drop rates. It is just my personal encounter with a lot of npcs, not only the Imperial, that cards seem to drop often enough.


4. I was talking to OP, and about OP's experience with TT, not anyone else. So other people not getting any cards is irrelevant.


5. I find it amusing you are calling out that other poster for being insulting when every post you have made in response to mine has had you insult me in one way or another, even if it was in a more passive way.