Low probabilities of Triple Triad drops, big fish, etc. Grinds becoming unreal.

[Taban]

Fishing is totally an optional thing in this game...if you do not enjoy the thrill of finally catching that fish that has been haunting your nightmares for weeks then it is not the content for you and you should probably try to do something else. The RNG for fishing some of those hard fish is bad, but its for people who like that sort of thing.

Triple Triad Card drop rate I can attest with fact is not that bad so idk what you are doing that you are not winning cards. In one day I went from starter deck (plus one dungeon card) to having 27 cards, all of which I won off of npcs (I also barely knew what I was doing since I hadn't played TT since FF8 in like 1999). Today I started at around 35 cards and went up to 46 or something. All won from npcs save one I got Ahriman from Dzemael dungeon. Yes, my RNG might have been a tad better than some people, but that is way too many wins of cards for it to be just all luck. Sometimes I even went to an npc and got a card first win. (This wasn't like non stop TT all day either, I took breaks for eating, chores, other in-game activities, and even coil for like 3 hours)

As someone playing a lot of TT - you got very lucky with drops. Some of the 5 star drops are stupidly low (Gaius comes to mind). I don't necessarily think it needs to be nerfed hardcore, but some of them do feel a bit too low.

[Miste]

As someone playing a lot of TT - you got very lucky with drops. Some of the 5 star drops are stupidly low (Gaius comes to mind). I don't necessarily think it needs to be nerfed hardcore, but some of them do feel a bit too low.

This is after having gotten these cards already also. This kind of luck is not possible I don't think? Seems like they have not bad drop rates.

This is me trying to get Gaius, which yes is a harder card to get, it is a 5 star card. OP is saying they could not get ANY cards though...
If you are going after a 5 star card then yes expect to spend a lot of time, I personally still do not have Gaius which is why right now I am here at Imperial trying to get it.

[Aeyis]

And some people with fulltime jobs, partners, kids, hobies other than XIV also don't mind the grind. Don't pretend just because you think it's not worth the time that others dont.

I dont mind the grind either, but that doesnt mean I have to argue for arguments sake and claim that a grind + heavy rng+ high difficulty is fine.

This is after having gotten these cards already also. This kind of luck is not possible I don't think? Seems like they have not bad drop rates.

This is me trying to get Gaius, which yes is a harder card to get, it is a 5 star card. OP is saying they could not get ANY cards though...
If you are going after a 5 star card then yes expect to spend a lot of time, I personally still do not have Gaius which is why right now I am here at Imperial trying to get it.

That just shows you are arguing without actually knowing the rates of the cards you are talking about. The imperial has a pretty high drop rate on both 2 and 3 star cards.
Higher then most npcs do in fact.
I've read what the OP said about not getting any cards at all. But I've also read not a single other person mentioning not getting any cards.

snip

I see you are done with pretending, and full out with insulting. No matter, I will respond properly to your reply.

There was no research, as noone actually knew.I did not waste my time, as the example was ment to illustrate how I do not mind grinding. If I did, would have I have fought that npc for 3 hours straight on the mere off chance of him having a card? No.


How good you are at TT or not, has nothing to do with this. As Kenji explained quite well already in another thread I believe: you will need to farm NPCs for their cards to reach 60. And some NPCs are simply too strong too farm.
This is where the rng comes in, since some might have gotten a rare card from defeating a npc once or twice, where the actual average rate might perhaps be 200 wins.
This is rather bad design, imo. Fighting these npcs is challenging, and rightfully so.
But to have their reward depend 100% on rng?

Several guides are also already posted for each NPC on how to beat them by manipulating their AI. Your struggling now more because of your lack of research vs myself who didn't have any of this information at the beginning. But who is complaining? The person who has the information at their hands, not the one who had to figure it out by themselves.

And more insults. I do not believe I mentioned struggling on any npc. (altho certain npcs are definately hard to defeat, by anyones standards) I would strongly advise you to actually read through peoples posts before you post your bile.

Lets not forget the regional rules that rotate daily to make these NPCs that host Random and Chaos rulesets mountains easier.

I believe you mentioned research? Well, if you had done more research you would know that certain npcs are unaffected by regional rules.

I rest my case.

People in this thread do not feasibly accept that it's not 100% because if this they did, this very thread would not exist. My question to those is what is acceptable to you? Something you can obtain in less then 10 tries? How much of a % is ok if not 1%?

We are not a mob, we are individual posters in here. There is no ''people in this thread''
Please dont make a complete fool out of yourself.

[Miste]

That just shows you are arguing without actually knowing the rates of the cards you are talking about. The imperial has a pretty high drop rate on both 2 and 3 star cards.
Higher then most npcs do in fact.
I've read what the OP said about not getting any cards at all. But I've also read not a single other person mentioning not getting any cards.

1. If you look at my posts and actually read them I was never "arguing". I was saying that to me the drop rates do not seem that bad as to encourage people to maybe attempt more or different npcs to get more cards. Since I had a large sample size from multiple npcs I was trying to share my experience, yes others might not get as many cards but you'll likely obtain some.


2. If you look at my post I asked a question "This kind of luck is not possible I don't think? Seems like they have not bad drop rates". I appreciate the info that Imperial has a higher drop rate than other npcs, but in essence you are just doing what you are claiming I am doing, "arguing without knowing the rates of the cards". Where is the proof Imperial has higher drop rate than other npcs?


3. Refer to number 2, I said "Seems" like that have not bad drop rates, never did I say they factually have not bad drop rates. It is just my personal encounter with a lot of npcs, not only the Imperial, that cards seem to drop often enough.


4. I was talking to OP, and about OP's experience with TT, not anyone else. So other people not getting any cards is irrelevant.


5. I find it amusing you are calling out that other poster for being insulting when every post you have made in response to mine has had you insult me in one way or another, even if it was in a more passive way.

[Aeyis]

5. I find it amusing you are calling out that other poster for being insulting when every post you have made in response to mine has had you insult me in one way or another, even if it was in a more passive way.

Oh? I thought I merely responded in kind. After all, I do believe you claimed that the card drop rate was quite high, in a rather condenscending way. Only to provide a rather poor example.

You mention every single post, when initially I only counter argumentated that contrary to your believe the droprate is quite random, and fairly low for the cards that are discussed about. (those needed to reach 60~)


The reason why I did made a rather cutting remark at you is because you seem to twist arguments in your favor.
For example:

If you look at my posts and actually read them I was never "arguing". I was saying that to me the drop rates do not seem that bad

I said "Seems" like that have not bad drop rates, never did I say they factually have not bad drop rates.

Triple Triad Card drop rate I can attest with fact is not that bad so idk what you are doing that you are not winning cards. In one day I went from starter deck (plus one dungeon card) to having 27 cards, all of which I won off of npcs (I also barely knew what I was doing since I hadn't played TT since FF8 in like 1999). Today I started at around 35 cards and went up to 46 or something. All won from npcs save one I got Ahriman from Dzemael dungeon. Yes, my RNG might have been a tad better than some people, but that is way too many wins of cards for it to be just all luck. Sometimes I even went to an npc and got a card first win.

Bolded for emphasis. Now I understand that you are overjoyed to have found a partner in crime in this thread, but please; if you try to counter my arguments by turning them around, please put more effort into it.

Since I had a large sample size from multiple npcs I was trying to share my experience, yes others might not get as many cards but you'll likely obtain some.

Your sample size was actually pretty small, as attested by others. For example your screenshot of the imperial shows a good many lost matches (which means less results). Compare that data of yours to: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ular-day-of-TT

I appreciate the info that Imperial has a higher drop rate than other npcs, but in essence you are just doing what you are claiming I am doing, "arguing without knowing the rates of the cards". Where is the proof Imperial has higher drop rate than other npcs?

Link above. I assumed that you read threads about TT frequently, seeing you presumed expertise on the matter?

I was talking to OP, and about OP's experience with TT, not anyone else. So other people not getting any cards is irrelevant.

We were discussing the drop rate of cards in general, how is it not relevant?

I find it amusing you are calling out that other poster for being insulting when every post you have made in response to mine has had you insult me in one way or another, even if it was in a more passive way.

Then please try to respond in a way that does not have me facepalm..with both hands.

[Miste]

Oh? I thought I merely responded in kind. After all, I do believe you claimed that the card drop rate was quite high, in a rather condenscending way. Only to provide a rather poor example.

You mention every single post, when initially I only counter argumentated that contrary to your believe the droprate is quite random, and fairly low for the cards that are discussed about. (those needed to reach 60~)

So you took my typed words, decided for yourself that they were condescending (they weren't, I was just sharing my experience with TT), then proceeded to openly insult me because of this perceived condescension.

Some advice...you shouldn't infer things from what people type and then insult them. What you perceived was not there, so then you are just insulting someone for no reason. I am actually the type of person that if you said you had a hard time beating a TT npc I would actually try to help you if I had a strategy I made for it.

Also all those edits you just made makes you seem even more rude. The attest with fact statement was correct because it was a response to OP that she apparently got no cards all day. So yes factually it is not that bad. Unless you were trying to get a 5 star card, you will get cards from npcs with that much time to try it.

[Tiggy]

Then please try to respond in a way that does not have me facepalm..with both hands.

Haven't really been a part of this discussion, but many of the points you pointed out that he said were very moot. You're more concerned with breaking his argument than the view point he is espousing. He experiences are just as real as yours and what he said has a quality of truth in it that you seem to want to ignore to build your own narrative.

[Havenchild]

I believe you mentioned research? Well, if you had done more research you would know that certain npcs are unaffected by regional rules.

I rest my case.

Only NPCs that have Random/ Chaos that are not affected by regional rules and are not incredibly easy to beat are... le gasp Swift & Rowena (who gets owned after the Triple Decker I achievment)??

Other then them? Absolutely none.

You may not be "struggling", if you say so, but you seem to be complaining about a drop system that's easily farmable as well. What NPC outside of Swift is so incredibly difficult to farm for these drops? Players have already documented countless strategies with 90%+ win ratios to destroying almost every single NPC. Even Swift, the hardest in the game at current, has a strategy against him.

Are all of these NPCs easy? Of course they are because the AI is so proficient at being baited and manipulated that it makes every fight that doesn't involve Chaos a steamroll, yes even Random is piss easy after your first Deck Upgrade.


In your own words :

Fighting these npcs is challenging, and rightfully so.

How good you are at TT or not, has nothing to do with this.

And some NPCs are simply too strong too farm.

Actually it kinda does. To say any NPC is difficult to put on farm, is the first indication that you are perhaps not as good as you assume so. Only Swift is truly difficult to defeat.

Even if say you are not the best of players, with strats already formed giving you 90%+ win ratios, how is this diffficult?

You seriously just sound like many who complain they have not gotten a 5 star card in hrs of playing. It's a 5 star card for said rarity.

It's like opening countless amounts of booster packs and not getting the Legendaries. Please stop expecting the best of the best to be handed to you so easily. The RNG and rare card drop rate is perfectly fine. Take a look at how many people have 60 cards already. Several people on my small time server have the Triple Decker II achievement. I can't imagine the situation on bigger servers.

As Kenji explained quite well already in another thread I believe: you will need to farm NPCs for their cards to reach 60. And some NPCs are simply too strong too farm.

You also do not need to farm every difficult NPC for these 60 cards. Your road to 60 does not need to be as weary as you seem to suggest. Easily completed trials/dungeons + booster packs already make up a heavy portion of the cards able to be obtained. In fact you can map a road to 60 cards and avoid even the remotely difficult NPCs.

without enter into a debat, i want to say they don't complain about the fact is hard.... but the fact it's tedious and boring. it's more a chore than a game, and on this they are right... personnally i had a feeling of accomplishement for the first step of the relic, when i did finally beat titan.... after this, no step of the relic did make me feel like this. they are cheap, easy and boring.... they are not fun, they are the worst example of grind the boring type that if you want to catch up will simply hold hostage all your other progression.
while the book period, i was unable to equip another character since all my mark was going into the book, while the light period i can't play other jobs and class. that fact, the relic force us to play to a different game. ff14 allows a lot of freedom in what you can do without character, but the relic is like playing another game where you have acces to only one jobs.

so far most of the grind we have in the game have become tedious, because SE want absolutly please hardcore gamer... screwing the other with stuff extremely long and uninteresting... by the way you want to know the best? it's pointless most of the content are simply destroy by the hardcore even with adding stuff at 1%....

i know that grind is part of the mmorpg, but recently we must admit the game have become grind land.... nothing extremely fun from it. do i feel that i have done something after reaching a goal? nope.... because is not hard, just repetitive.

It's not about catering to the hardcore. It's simply about increasing longevity to the game and adding value to items. If everyone can get things super fast, it cheapens the value of the item in itself on top of leaves nothing to be desired and people move on much quicker.

I agree with you on what the Relic turned out to be, involving a grind. But does no one remember how the original Pre Zenith Relic went? SEVERAL POSTS on these forums complained about the difficulty of Titan HM ALONE. Many wished this was never repeated again and many asked SE to not lock content that only the capable "hardcore" players can accomplish. Well this is the result of the feedback taken form. Everything is now repetitive ez mode boring grind so that no one can feel left out.

[Taban]

This is after having gotten these cards already also. This kind of luck is not possible I don't think? Seems like they have not bad drop rates.

This is me trying to get Gaius, which yes is a harder card to get, it is a 5 star card. OP is saying they could not get ANY cards though...
If you are going after a 5 star card then yes expect to spend a lot of time, I personally still do not have Gaius which is why right now I am here at Imperial trying to get it.

Just as an example of what some people are going through on that same npc