@dev team ->> Thanks for bringing back party grinding, -really-

[captainpicard]

FFXI's camp-style grinding was terrible. Seriously, standing in one place for hours and hours pulling one mob at a time made the monotony almost unbearable. Please don't try to add that style of gameplay to FFXIV. It isn't any fun.

The people who liked FFXI's style of grinding seemed to only like for the fact that you were playing with other people, which is understandable, but you CAN play with other people in a WoW style questing system. In fact, doing so makes WoW's quest grinding much more entertaining. The people who don't know this probably either never played WoW, or never bothered to try playing with other people in it.

You can play with other people in a WOW style questing system in 100 other WOW and or WOW clone games. And frankly, having played Aion, WoW, AoC, Rift, and so on, the more premiere WoW clones if you will, the only people I see playing together in that type of system are real life friends, or people joining a group for 5 minutes to kill one thing and then disbanding it immediately once the enemy is dead without even a thanks or c-ya have the time.

I don't see how WoW quest grinding is "much more entertaining" .. lets do a compare

WoW - Get quest from NPC with minor story to kill 8 wolves, bring back 8 wolf hides. Get Gold, Armor, and Experience Points. (i.e. welfare)

FFXIV - Get quest from floating stone to kill 8 wolves (with the option for increased rewards for doing it with other people), or more recently, get quest from NPC to kill 8 wolves. Complete, get gil and experience points (i.e. welfare)

Since the guide-leve system has existed in FFXIV since day one, and creates the WOW quest / daily system which you embrace AND at least at some point encouraged grouping to complete them then all those players should have been satisfied. Since the game has lost players at an astounding rate (For a multitude of reasons) its safe to assume a portion of them left due to dissatisifaction with this play style.

FFXIV will never do WOW/Clone questing as effectively as those games do it.

There are plenty of WOW/Clone games available to satisfy that market.

FFXIV currently has an opportunity to differentiate itself from the swarm by going more towards the earlier gen MMO style (which WOW has effectively killed) as there is an audience out there who is hungry for that. If they weren't, then FFXI wouldn't still be running 9 years later, with a player base much larger than this game.

Finally - If you look at the actual design of jobs, they are built to be played with strategic position. The games mechanics lend itself much better to a camp and pull style party system, not a run around with a strategyless hack n slash zerg fest. That experience is available 100 other places.

Camp & Pull will save this game if its implemented in a way that
1. There are actually enough mobs to camp and pull
2. They don't run back to their house if they get 5 feet from it
3. Jobs are more specialized

WOW style play will never save it because
1. Instanced content has little longevity
2. This game will never do WOW style as effectively as WOW
3. They already tried it with leve's and look at where we are at.

Non instanced dungeons/worlds with other parties and risks introduced by other real people, is what makes existing content fun, keeps it fresh, and gives it longevity.

In short-

SE keep working on partying, its the bread and butter of fun
Add epic quest lines (Zilart style - now those are quests I can get enthusiastic about)
Focus on job diversity

For those that want a casual element in the game, then just let them solo for severely reduced experience points. There is no need for leve's. I can't stress how much that is just MMO welfare.

[Reika]

Having only mindless repetitive grinding of field mobs from R1-Rx will be no fun for anyone. Having more and more quests to do will be more fun. If you want to grind on monsters forever with little questing, there's a F2P game called 'Fly for Fun' you could play. No one wants FFXIV, besides you OP, to become like that.

[captainpicard]

Having only mindless repetitive grinding of field mobs from R1-Rx will be no fun for anyone. Having more and more quests to do will be more fun. If you want to grind on monsters forever with little questing, there's a F2P game called 'Fly for Fun' you could play. No one wants FFXIV, besides you OP, to become like that.

You must mean no one left playing since most people like me split along time ago. That would explain the dead game.

[Reika]

You must mean no one left playing since most people like me split along time ago. That would explain the dead game.

A long time ago there were no side quests or dungeons, and you could have grinded on field mobs all you wanted then and you can now. Dont try to say all that has been added and all that is coming is the reason why people left. People left because there was very little to do and battle was not fun and unrewarding.

[Rhianu]

I don't see how WoW quest grinding is "much more entertaining" .. lets do a compare

WoW - Get quest from NPC with minor story to kill 8 wolves, bring back 8 wolf hides. Get Gold, Armor, and Experience Points. (i.e. welfare)

FFXIV - Get quest from floating stone to kill 8 wolves (with the option for increased rewards for doing it with other people), or more recently, get quest from NPC to kill 8 wolves. Complete, get gil and experience points (i.e. welfare)

Since the guide-leve system has existed in FFXIV since day one, and creates the WOW quest / daily system which you embrace AND at least at some point encouraged grouping to complete them then all those players should have been satisfied. Since the game has lost players at an astounding rate (For a multitude of reasons) its safe to assume a portion of them left due to dissatisifaction with this play style.

Guild Leves are not like WoW style questing at all, and your claim that they are only proves that you never truly understood how either Guild Leves or WoW style quests actually work.

WoW quests are different from Guild Leves in that each WoW quest sends you off to new and unique areas, has you fight different mobs, you get quests from a variety of NPCs, and most importantly, you're not forced to repeat the exact same eight quests over and over again once every 36 hours. All these things are present in FFXIV's Guild Leves, however, and they serve to make FFXIV's Guild Leve system highly inferior to WoW style questing.

However, you are correct in saying that the more recent Side-Quest system where we get quests from NPCs is like WoW style questing, but it's a half-assed, bastardized version of it. I'm sure the Side-Quests SE adds in the future will be better, but the ones we got so far have felt very shallow compared to similar offerings in WoW.

Yes, a lot of people have left FFXIV, but I guarantee you it's not because FFXIV had WoW style questing, because it didn't until just a few short months ago. The REAL reason so many people left the game is because FFXIV lacked engaging and interesting content, had copy-pasted terrain, had a clunky battle system and a horrible interface. THAT'S what caused people to leave.

[Reika]

WoW also has well over 5000 quests, per faction, that aren't repeatable on the same character. And they are all chained together to send you to progressively more difficult areas all over the world. I hope SE manages that kind of questing system in FFXIV. It takes a lot of hard work and planning to get as many quests that WoW has chained together like it. It also takes a story, something OP doesn't think an MMO/RPG requires. If this were a silly hack and slash game, the story could be omitted, but it wont be that way with FFXIV.

A WoW type questing system (even tho WoW didn't invent the chain quest..... dammit) would be good for any MMO, because it gets you involved in what is going on in the world. Even tho we all dont want FFXIV to be like other MMOS, having lots of quests that involve the story and theme of the game is always a good thing in an MMO. as said above, they send players out into the world, not just to kill some monster for no reason, but to kill that monster for a cause.

[AceofRains]

WoW also has well over 5000 quests, per faction, that aren't repeatable on the same character. And they are all chained together to send you to progressively more difficult areas all over the world. I hope SE manages that kind of questing system in FFXIV. It takes a lot of hard work and planning to get as many quests that WoW has chained together like it. It also takes a story, something OP doesn't think an MMO/RPG requires. If this were a silly hack and slash game, the story could be omitted, but it wont be that way with FFXIV.

I do like that system, but only to an extent. That way feels like they've mapped the whole game out for you. I like to make my own choices on what to do next. They basically spell the entire game out, completely directing you until endgame. I like a little freedom in what I'm to do next, so as I don't take the same path as everyone else to the top.

[Reika]

I do like that system, but only to an extent. That way feels like they've mapped the whole game out for you. I like to make my own choices on what to do next. They basically spell the entire game out, completely directing you until endgame. I like a little freedom in what I'm to do next, so as I don't take the same path as everyone else to the top.

Yea, but we still need more quests that send us to areas that are totally unused and that no one would normally go to. There could also be tribal quests that are unique to each tribe, like plainsfolk quests and such.

[AceofRains]

Yea, but we still need more quests that send us to areas that are totally unused and that no one would normally go to. There could also be tribal quests that are unique to each tribe, like plainsfolk quests and such.

Agreed. Ooo I like that tribal quest idea. tell me, in game have we even experienced the dwellings of the dunesfolk as described here?

but yeah a reason (but not a necessity) to explore as we advance would work well. As far as I understood from I think a letter or an interview, thats something they're working on.

[Wolfie]

I do like that system, but only to an extent. That way feels like they've mapped the whole game out for you. I like to make my own choices on what to do next. They basically spell the entire game out, completely directing you until endgame. I like a little freedom in what I'm to do next, so as I don't take the same path as everyone else to the top.

I found FFXI's leveling to be infinitely more limiting than WOW's. Everyone always used the same camps, and there was no f***ing way you could get a party to do something unique or off the wall.