@dev team ->> Thanks for bringing back party grinding, -really-

[Rhianu]

I don't see how WoW quest grinding is "much more entertaining" .. lets do a compare

WoW - Get quest from NPC with minor story to kill 8 wolves, bring back 8 wolf hides. Get Gold, Armor, and Experience Points. (i.e. welfare)

FFXIV - Get quest from floating stone to kill 8 wolves (with the option for increased rewards for doing it with other people), or more recently, get quest from NPC to kill 8 wolves. Complete, get gil and experience points (i.e. welfare)

Since the guide-leve system has existed in FFXIV since day one, and creates the WOW quest / daily system which you embrace AND at least at some point encouraged grouping to complete them then all those players should have been satisfied. Since the game has lost players at an astounding rate (For a multitude of reasons) its safe to assume a portion of them left due to dissatisifaction with this play style.

Guild Leves are not like WoW style questing at all, and your claim that they are only proves that you never truly understood how either Guild Leves or WoW style quests actually work.

WoW quests are different from Guild Leves in that each WoW quest sends you off to new and unique areas, has you fight different mobs, you get quests from a variety of NPCs, and most importantly, you're not forced to repeat the exact same eight quests over and over again once every 36 hours. All these things are present in FFXIV's Guild Leves, however, and they serve to make FFXIV's Guild Leve system highly inferior to WoW style questing.

However, you are correct in saying that the more recent Side-Quest system where we get quests from NPCs is like WoW style questing, but it's a half-assed, bastardized version of it. I'm sure the Side-Quests SE adds in the future will be better, but the ones we got so far have felt very shallow compared to similar offerings in WoW.

Yes, a lot of people have left FFXIV, but I guarantee you it's not because FFXIV had WoW style questing, because it didn't until just a few short months ago. The REAL reason so many people left the game is because FFXIV lacked engaging and interesting content, had copy-pasted terrain, had a clunky battle system and a horrible interface. THAT'S what caused people to leave.

[Reika]

WoW also has well over 5000 quests, per faction, that aren't repeatable on the same character. And they are all chained together to send you to progressively more difficult areas all over the world. I hope SE manages that kind of questing system in FFXIV. It takes a lot of hard work and planning to get as many quests that WoW has chained together like it. It also takes a story, something OP doesn't think an MMO/RPG requires. If this were a silly hack and slash game, the story could be omitted, but it wont be that way with FFXIV.

A WoW type questing system (even tho WoW didn't invent the chain quest..... dammit) would be good for any MMO, because it gets you involved in what is going on in the world. Even tho we all dont want FFXIV to be like other MMOS, having lots of quests that involve the story and theme of the game is always a good thing in an MMO. as said above, they send players out into the world, not just to kill some monster for no reason, but to kill that monster for a cause.

[AceofRains]

WoW also has well over 5000 quests, per faction, that aren't repeatable on the same character. And they are all chained together to send you to progressively more difficult areas all over the world. I hope SE manages that kind of questing system in FFXIV. It takes a lot of hard work and planning to get as many quests that WoW has chained together like it. It also takes a story, something OP doesn't think an MMO/RPG requires. If this were a silly hack and slash game, the story could be omitted, but it wont be that way with FFXIV.

I do like that system, but only to an extent. That way feels like they've mapped the whole game out for you. I like to make my own choices on what to do next. They basically spell the entire game out, completely directing you until endgame. I like a little freedom in what I'm to do next, so as I don't take the same path as everyone else to the top.

[captainpicard]

Guild Leves are not like WoW style questing at all, and your claim that they are only proves that you never truly understood how either Guild Leves or WoW style quests actually work.

WoW quests are different from Guild Leves in that each WoW quest sends you off to new and unique areas, has you fight different mobs, you get quests from a variety of NPCs, and most importantly, you're not forced to repeat the exact same eight quests over and over again once every 36 hours. All these things are present in FFXIV's Guild Leves, however, and they serve to make FFXIV's Guild Leve system highly inferior to WoW style questing.

However, you are correct in saying that the more recent Side-Quest system where we get quests from NPCs is like WoW style questing, but it's a half-assed, bastardized version of it. I'm sure the Side-Quests SE adds in the future will be better, but the ones we got so far have felt very shallow compared to similar offerings in WoW.

Yes, a lot of people have left FFXIV, but I guarantee you it's not because FFXIV had WoW style questing, because it didn't until just a few short months ago. The REAL reason so many people left the game is because FFXIV lacked engaging and interesting content, had copy-pasted terrain, had a clunky battle system and a horrible interface. THAT'S what caused people to leave.

I have played the quest driven MMOs. You are correct that stones are not npc's, and wow quest lines do take you through a some what linear path (this is really bad in AOC and AION) through all the different zones leading up to the end game content. However, its still an endless string of kill 8 of this and bring me 10 of that, and help grandma poopy pants clean up her garden. In the end, they are the same, one you strip them down and look at them for what they really are. A mostly solo grind.

I do not require a NPC to get me to go adventure and explore a world, nor do I need a reward to do so.

What I do need is a group of people to go do it with and have fun with.

As far as your commentary about why people left, I can sum it up since I played through all of it.

Party play at the outset was a zerg with no strategy and unpredictable experience points. The only way to really progress effectively in a grind style party was to do it with 24 ppl or whatever the limit was, its been so long ago now I have forgotten. Once they stablized exp, those grind parties died, because partying at that point was NOT EFFECTIVE for leveling up. That left leve's, which you know where I am at with, and much of the community (as seen in this thread) agrees.

People left because of a lack of a "Fun" way to group together and party.

[darkstarpoet1]

I have played the quest driven MMOs. You are correct that stones are not npc's, and wow quest lines do take you through a some what linear path (this is really bad in AOC and AION) through all the different zones leading up to the end game content. However, its still an endless string of kill 8 of this and bring me 10 of that, and help grandma poopy pants clean up her garden. In the end, they are the same, one you strip them down and look at them for what they really are. A mostly solo grind.

I do not require a NPC to get me to go adventure and explore a world, nor do I need a reward to do so.

What I do need is a group of people to go do it with and have fun with.

As far as your commentary about why people left, I can sum it up since I played through all of it.

Party play at the outset was a zerg with no strategy and unpredictable experience points. The only way to really progress effectively in a grind style party was to do it with 24 ppl or whatever the limit was, its been so long ago now I have forgotten. Once they stablized exp, those grind parties died, because partying at that point was NOT EFFECTIVE for leveling up. That left leve's, which you know where I am at with, and much of the community (as seen in this thread) agrees.

People left because of a lack of a "Fun" way to group together and party.

you are wrong. parties have ALWAYS been an effective way to level up. you are fooling yourself to believe otherwise. you add things saying zerg style 24 man parties were the norm when you know as well as i do that parties were NEVER allowed 24 people to start with nor was max party size EVER the most effective way to level up. parties since the sp patch back in november people have always had grind parties. groups of 3-6 have always been the best sp. i hate to break it to you, but it is true.

sure you could get good sp off doing leves, but that is only a few hours every 36. people still grinded in between leve parties and worked on their other classes. not to mention you talk about grouping and doing leves is not any different than it is doing the same boring pull and camp of mobs. if anything, the leves were more exciting.

if the majority of mmo gamers felt grinding by pull and spank camping was the most fun route then xi would have been the most popular the entire time it was out. the truth is that it is not the case and that is why it never happened. many people believe many different things is fun to them.

am i saying your way is wrong? no, not at all because you enjoy what you enjoy, but you must realize that other people enjoy other things also. to ignore them is just leading down a path of failure. to have success you must find the things everyone enjoys and find ways to please each group. to me it would be best if i had 10 different ways to level so that if i got bored with one i could do something else. doing any one thing gets boring whether it be quests, grinding, soloing, raids, or leves. no one way should ever be made the only effective way to do anything.

[Rhianu]

I have played the quest driven MMOs. You are correct that stones are not npc's, and wow quest lines do take you through a some what linear path (this is really bad in AOC and AION) through all the different zones leading up to the end game content. However, its still an endless string of kill 8 of this and bring me 10 of that, and help grandma poopy pants clean up her garden. In the end, they are the same, one you strip them down and look at them for what they really are. A mostly solo grind.

The only similarity between the two systems is that they both have you killing monsters and receiving rewards for doing so. That doesn't mean the two systems are identical. That's like saying all the cakes in the entire world are exactly the same just because they're all made from flour and eggs, or that a Mercedes Benz is the same as a Ford Pinto because they've both got engines, doors, windshields, and tires. Just because two things are both made from the same basic components, that doesn't automatically mean they're going to be of the same caliber or be of equal quality.

I do not require a NPC to get me to go adventure and explore a world, nor do I need a reward to do so.

What I do need is a group of people to go do it with and have fun with.

Well sure, doing stuff with friends can make any activity more entertaining, but let's be honest, playing a video game that has CONTENT with your friends is always going to be more fun and entertaining than playing a game that DOESN'T have content with your friends.

[Griss]

I do rather like the option to gather up some friends of the same rank and go out on a monster slaughter expedition. Mind you its never not been an option in xiv. just highly devalued during the mega leve link period.

[Wolfie]

Mind blowing revelation for you grind-lovers: you will always be able to grind, regardless of whether the game promotes solo questing, group questing, dungeoneering, or whatever. But it doesn't work the other way around when a game promotes grinding.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

OP makes no sense being that none of those other options affect party grinding. It's now the best way to SP when not soloing leves.

[odette]

grind parties = lack of content
is the truth why SE uses grind method when this metod is obsolet
again the foult ffxi players that wanna outher ffxi no ew game