The Wyrmking vs. Thordan

[treuhavik]

Those two Lords, mayhaps, being Nidhogg and the King of Kings, Midgardsormr.

It's Midgarsormr himself that states two of his sons are presently in Eorzea.

[PotatoSalad]

It's Midgarsormr himself that states two of his sons are presently in Eorzea.

o3o

Oh, right-o! I forgot 'bout that detail!

Well, isn't Midgy one of the first dragons born in Eorzea? If so, maybe he's referring to one as Bahamut?

[treuhavik]

o3o

Oh, right-o! I forgot 'bout that detail!

Well, isn't Midgy one of the first dragons born in Eorzea? If so, maybe he's referring to one as Bahamut?

Aye. In fact, Midgarsormr is supposedly the first dragon and sired seven sons.

Bahamut might make sense if you haven't finished coil, but is that the real Bahamut or a aethereal manifestation of him? Actually, considering that the coil storyline ended before patch 2.5a, even his primal form is dead. Besides, even if Bahamut had never been entrapped by the Allagan in the 3rd astral era, he'd still be in Meracydia with his people dragon horde, which is not in the realm of Eorzea.

So, while Bahamut was probably one of Midgardsormr's children, he's not one of the sons he references being in Eorzea.

[Balipu]

Aye. In fact, Midgarsormr is supposedly the first dragon and sired seven sons.

And we will meat all seven of them. Yoshie-P mentioned in the PAX presentation that the story will deal with the seven evil wyrmkings

[Nalien]

And we will meat all seven of them. Yoshie-P mentioned in the PAX presentation that the story will deal with the seven evil wyrmkings

Guess that puts the idea that Bahamut was Midgardsormrs son to rest... Unless we're going to deal with him again through some means, but I'm doubting that somewhat.

I'm sticking to my theory;

• The Twelve were Allag Warrior of Light who survived Xandes Calamity and helped people to the point they were transformed into Gods/Eikons by history.
• Midgardsormr came after/around the same time as Xandes Calamity (perhaps as a survivor of Meracydia). An agreement was met between him and the Warriors of Light (who represent Hydaelyn, hence that connection) for him to protect Allag relics and prevent their misuse. Specifically Crystal Tower.
• He fathered seven sons, Nidhogg being one who was charged with protecting the Allag Sky Fortress. Nidhogg now calls for help as Ishgard proceeds with their plans, resulting in the Rising Chorus.
• Ishgards first sin was taking the location which acts as a path to this fortress, which Nidhogg was originally controlling/guarding. The second mistake they are about to make, is going there and activating it. They want to for religious/war reasons (either to reach their promised land (similar to the Covenant in Halo?), or to wipe out the dragons, or both). Ascians are helping them because activating it will cause enough Chaos to bring about a Rejoining or whatever. Dragons want to stop Ishgard because common sense.
• Midgardsormr guarded the Lake, which was actually Crystal Towers resting place. Garleans work on Bozja Citadel pre-1.0 in an attempt to recreate Crystal Tower and bring down Dalamud, then they move for Mor Dhona when that fails. Thus Midgardsormr acts resulting in the Battle for Silvertear Skies. He ultimately failed, which is why he can now absolve that contract since there is no real reason for him to guard the area anymore; Instead he will guard us, the new Warriors of Light.

[Anonymoose]

<theory>

I'm still trying to figure out if the game is implying that Midgardsormr has been around since at least the start of the cycle of the eras. I mean, for one, his name means World Serpent. But then you have little things here and there such as this from the German:

Am Anbeginn gewährte Hydaelyn mir Schutz und Licht. Mir steht nicht zu, mich über ihre Wahl zu stellen.
At the beginning, Hydaelyn granted me protection and light. I have no place to put myself before Her choice.

[Nalien]

I'm still trying to figure out if the game is implying that Midgardsormr has been around since at least the start of the cycle of the eras. I mean, for one, his name means World Serpent. But then you have little things here and there such as this from the German:

For me, I just can't get my head around what he was doing during the Allagans reign if he predates them. I'm given to disregard his name, given Jourmangand (and Thor) show up in World of Darkness with no importance, and the German could be interpreted in various ways (at the beginning of time, at the beginning of current events, etc.).

Bozja Citadel and Project Meteor all tying back to Crystal Tower as reasoning for Midgardsormr taking out the Agrius just really works for me. Mor Dhona being created by the Twelve as the center of the world and source of all aether (power)? For the Allag Crystal Tower was the center of their Empire and source of its power. Were he guarding the place during their reign... Either he is incompetent and just didn't care about the Voidgate-opening-Tower being built (or his heirs war?) or we're missing some epic battle that went on, but I have no context for that.

Then there are the Allagan Runestones... Basic stone carvings either fit the Allags early years, or follow the Calamity. The fact that Dalamud features on one of the Runestones tells me they came after. Either the surviving Allag created the Twelve or turned back to religion following their fall, which is certainly possible I'll admit. The quote on the Triple Triad card for Urianger also puts me in the mind that The Twelve were just the old Warriors of Light; "Truth interpreted is truth transformed. Today's heroes may yet become tomorrow's gods...or something else.", also perhaps explaining Primal origins (the "something else"). Previous Warriors of Light, heroes of the past, make a pact with Midgardsormr as Hydaelyns representatives, history interprets events over and over until they become gods.

[Edellis]

Aye. In fact, Midgarsormr is supposedly the first dragon and sired seven sons.

Bahamut might make sense if you haven't finished coil, but is that the real Bahamut or a aethereal manifestation of him? Actually, considering that the coil storyline ended before patch 2.5a, even his primal form is dead. Besides, even if Bahamut had never been entrapped by the Allagan in the 3rd astral era, he'd still be in Meracydia with his people dragon horde, which is not in the realm of Eorzea.

So, while Bahamut was probably one of Midgardsormr's children, he's not one of the sons he references being in Eorzea.

I was under the impression that somehow, Bahamut being referred to as a Dreadwyrm made him different from a "Dragon", but i know dragons go through metamorphosis as they age. Are he and Midgardsormr even the same type of being?

[treuhavik]

I was under the impression that somehow, Bahamut being referred to as a Dreadwyrm made him different from a "Dragon", but i know dragons go through metamorphosis as they age. Are he and Midgardsormr even the same type of being?

Dreadwyrm simply means that he's a Wyrm (Great Dragon) that is greatly feared. He and Midgardsormr were both Scalekin (dragons), but the Bahamut we see is actually the primal version. The true Bahamut is believed to have died centuries past. How this primal form differs from his living form isn't exactly known.

However, I've heard that in the expansion we'll fight all seven sons of Midgardsormr and, well, we can't really fight a non-existent Bahamut, can we? So, perhaps he wasn't a son of Midgardsormr, but he's still said to be "of the first brood" I believe and was definitely the father of the Meracydian Horde.

[Reinhart]

The interview at PAX East mentioned we'd fight seven wyrm kings in Heavensward, but it wasn't stated that they also were Migardsormr's sons. The seven and seven might link up to show that's the case, but we haven't had any confirmation of that yet.