The Wyrmking vs. Thordan

[Zohar_Lahar]

I finally got around to unlocking Dragoon, and just completed the level 35 quest, where Ser Alberic told me the story about Ishgard's founding and the skirmish with Nidhogg. (i.e. the plot point for Heavenward mentioned at Las Vegas fan festival)

One thing I can't help but notice in the tale is that Thordan seemed to start it by attacking the wyrmking unprovoked. Obviously Ishgard is going to be extremely biased, but the tale as told doesn't exactly indicate Nidhogg approached with hostile intent.

Though given Ishgard's shady nature and who they may or may not be harboring within their walls, I do wonder if the missing Eye and ensuing blood feud is not the only "sins" the rising chorus is preaching about.

[Belhi]

My take on the story was that Nidhogg came swooping down and Thordan leaped up to intercept.

I think its almost without question there is more to the tale. However I doubt its going to be clear cut on either side. While the Ishgardian founder may have been guilty of wrongs, Nidhogg and the Dravanians have not discriminate in their war, slaughtering the weak as ruthlessly as they have the strong. From my experience of FF14, I expect we will find issue with both sides. Its also possible both sides are getting played by Ascians.

Also there is the comment in 2.5 that there are two Wyrmlords in Eorzea. That could suggest that the Dravanian leadership could have it's own factions. That could create an interesting politic dynamic among the Dravanians.

[PotatoSalad]

My take on the story was that Nidhogg came swooping down and Thordan leaped up to intercept.

I think its almost without question there is more to the tale. However I doubt its going to be clear cut on either side. While the Ishgardian founder may have been guilty of wrongs, Nidhogg and the Dravanians have not discriminate in their war, slaughtering the weak as ruthlessly as they have the strong. From my experience of FF14, I expect we will find issue with both sides. Its also possible both sides are getting played by Ascians.

Also there is the comment in 2.5 that there are two Wyrmlords in Eorzea. That could suggest that the Dravanian leadership could have it's own factions. That could create an interesting politic dynamic among the Dravanians.

Those two Lords, mayhaps, being Nidhogg and the King of Kings, Midgardsormr.

[treuhavik]

Those two Lords, mayhaps, being Nidhogg and the King of Kings, Midgardsormr.

It's Midgarsormr himself that states two of his sons are presently in Eorzea.

[PotatoSalad]

It's Midgarsormr himself that states two of his sons are presently in Eorzea.

o3o

Oh, right-o! I forgot 'bout that detail!

Well, isn't Midgy one of the first dragons born in Eorzea? If so, maybe he's referring to one as Bahamut?

[treuhavik]

o3o

Oh, right-o! I forgot 'bout that detail!

Well, isn't Midgy one of the first dragons born in Eorzea? If so, maybe he's referring to one as Bahamut?

Aye. In fact, Midgarsormr is supposedly the first dragon and sired seven sons.

Bahamut might make sense if you haven't finished coil, but is that the real Bahamut or a aethereal manifestation of him? Actually, considering that the coil storyline ended before patch 2.5a, even his primal form is dead. Besides, even if Bahamut had never been entrapped by the Allagan in the 3rd astral era, he'd still be in Meracydia with his people dragon horde, which is not in the realm of Eorzea.

So, while Bahamut was probably one of Midgardsormr's children, he's not one of the sons he references being in Eorzea.

[treuhavik]

Though given Ishgard's shady nature and who they may or may not be harboring within their walls, I do wonder if the missing Eye and ensuing blood feud is not the only "sins" the rising chorus is preaching about.

I have a feeling the Ascians have had a finger in Ishgard since at least that first battle.

Reposting from another thread;

Could it be that someone empowered by Halone came to Thordan, converted him and his men from their previous religion, and guided them to the Holy See? Maybe once conflict between the Ishgardians and Dravanians began, this 'Saint' "betrayed" the people she had led by consorting with their new-found enemy.

What if the Dravanians aren't as bad as they're made out to be...?

What if Ishgard fell under Ascian influence not long after it was founded, and their Saint remained pure thanks to a certain divine gift, defecting to the side of lesser evil to put an end to a senseless war?

Thoughts?

[Belhi]

I have a feeling the Ascians have had a finger in Ishgard since at least that first battle.

Reposting from another thread;


Thoughts?

I just finished the Dragoon Job story and that ending gives me the feeling that whatever happened in the past, Nidhogg is rather fallen these days. It's not clear but I suspect that whatever started this who conflict wasn't nearly as clear cut (trying to avoid spoilers) and involved failings on both sides. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to learn that the Ascians have been playing both sides. Possibly to keep both sides from every allying since that would be detrimental to their plans.

Whoever the other Dragon Lord is, I have a feeling they are more likely to be moderate. What we have seen of Nidhogg is he is positively burning with hatred. Every time he wakens he rampages slaughtering pretty indiscriminately. Heavenward seems likely to be mainly about us trying to end the ancient conflict and bridge the divide between the Dragons and Ishgardians. That's why I don't think we will be taking a specific side but rather wrestling with both sides to finally end the conflict.

[treuhavik]

That's why I don't think we will be taking a specific side but rather wrestling with both sides to finally end the conflict.

Someone's already tried this and they ended up playing host to a primal entity. We'll have to do a much better job than said person if we plan to avoid what the Ascians seem to want us for. We'll probably end up playing right into their hands as usual though.


On another note, I feel as though the Ascians gained control over the theocracy 15-17 years ago, when Ishgard withdrew from the Eorzean Alliance - having Ishgard instead focus on continuing the endless conflict, rather than helping the realm as a whole, and hopefully bringing rise to two more primals.

[Belhi]

Iceheart frankly didn't seem to have been particularly neutral. We really don't know her relations to the Dragons. Her solution to the war seems to have been to tip the balance in the favour of the Dravanians. While this would deal with the corruption within Ishgard it would probably involve the devastation of Ishgard and the slaughter of its people. Considering that little prophecy thing we got awhile back from Yoshi-P I think we need an intact Ishgard purged of the Ascians influence.

"To naught but the Ivory Spear shall ebon mail yield, Yet Her point remains ever trained upon scales of black. Peer deep into the dust which swirls in our wakes, And know the bloody dance of the light and dark to be everlasting."

From that last line, also suspect the Ascians have had their hand in Ishgard's affairs for centuries, perhaps since the beginning. We may yet discover the same is true for the Dravanians too.