Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Dervy]

Aah fair enough then. Yeh, the model is constructed in a way that assumes DoTs are on their own internal timer and the final DoT tick happens as the debuff falls off. So applying Chaos Thrust at 29.99s for example, would clip the DoT by 0.01s (which is dumb). I think I can fix this issue pretty easily to be honest. DoT's have an internal global timer of 3s. Therefore as an average, a DoT tick happened +-1.5s of the Chaos Thrust reapplication. So, couldn't we just make the assumption that if we reapply the DoT outside of that +-1.5 bracket, as an average, the DoT will clip?

It's really tricky to accurately model anything in this game because of the internal global timer for DoTs. If you start your rotation 2s into the next global DoT tick, that could be the difference between clipping and not clipping DoTs at any given SkillSpeed (theoretically), which really sucks. Unless you or anyone else has a better suggestion?

@Tetsuya, I'd go for http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAF8.

[MrYaah]

Aah fair enough then. Yeh, the model is constructed in a way that assumes DoTs are on their own internal timer and the final DoT tick happens as the debuff falls off. So applying Chaos Thrust at 29.99s for example, would clip the DoT by 0.01s (which is dumb). I think I can fix this issue pretty easily to be honest. DoT's have an internal global timer of 3s. Therefore as an average, a DoT tick happened +-1.5s of the Chaos Thrust reapplication. So, couldn't we just make the assumption that if we reapply the DoT outside of that +-1.5 bracket, as an average, the DoT will clip?

It's really tricky to accurately model anything in this game because of the internal global timer for DoTs. If you start your rotation 2s into the next global DoT tick, that could be the difference between clipping and not clipping DoTs at any given SkillSpeed (theoretically), which really sucks. Unless you or anyone else has a better suggestion?

@Tetsuya, I'd go for http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAF8.

I don't think the way to model it is to think about dots as being clipped. You have to look at it like a skill with upfront damage and a dot ticking in the background, if you're constantly reapplying you're never missing a tick, but if you reapply very frequently obviously you're not making the spell tick any faster so you're wasting potential dot ticks and the only benefit is that you've extended the duration by newduration-oldduration +the upfront damage of the spel. if you have a rotation that never drops the dot tick you can just assume the number of dot ticks is rotationduration/3, where the remainder gives you the probability of getting the +1 dot tick because you applyed the buff initially right before a dot tick. You can probably normalize out the last dot tick and just assume that if say, you're getting 21.5 dot ticks the value of the last tick is .5*dotpotency.

That being said when you have a rotation where the dot always falls off the math becomes much easier because you know you got an exact number of ticks and you can bundle the tick damage with the upfront damage on an application by application basis.

[MrYaah]

Is the Crafted Set superior compared to the Non-Crafted BiS Set with the 410 Determination?

Yes, any set that includes crafted gear doesn't exclude non crafted gear in its calculations so if the full i130 set was superior you'd end up still end up using those.

[SunnyHirose]

I model DoT effects as if they are continuous rather than coming in discrete ticks:

Modeled DoT potency = [Full DoT potency] × MIN([active length of DoT] ÷ [Full DoT duration], 1).

The core assumption here is that the ticks have an equal chance to be synced to any time (and since they start pulsing outside reasonable player control, this is sane enough, I think). Thus, the portion clipped is exactly how much DoT potency you should expect to lose over an infinite number of runs. So, losing the last tick because you clipped by 0.01s is treated like the freak accident it is.

[siverstorm]

Take these with a grain of salt.

I tried several times but I've been having some extreme lag (every minute or so I see two GCD animations go off at the same time) all night and the numbers I'm getting are a little under what I usually get (kinda embarrassing to post tbh since I've done better on 4 minute runs in the past).

But overall from what I'm seeing the proposed HP vs what I usually do has been a dps loss.
The proposed rotation executed with no noticable lag: http://i.imgur.com/7MasrAi.png
The proposed rotation with two lag spikes one which fucked up a TTT and one which fucked up a IDC (;-; ) if you care: http://i.imgur.com/Ohiv0KH.png

My rotation with no visible lag: http://i.imgur.com/OFTP0eK.png

I've pulled higher with my rotation in the past but on average I noticed a slight loss in some cases.
I feel like if it was mathematically supposed to be an increase then most of it may have been attributed to me getting used to it? I'm not completely sure.

All with food, party, xpots (no poison, no mercy).

[MrYaah]

I model DoT effects as if they are continuous rather than coming in discrete ticks:

Modeled DoT potency = [Full DoT potency] × MIN([active length of DoT] ÷ [Full DoT duration], 1).

The core assumption here is that the ticks have an equal chance to be synced to any time (and since they start pulsing outside reasonable player control, this is sane enough, I think). Thus, the portion clipped is exactly how much DoT potency you should expect to lose over an infinite number of runs. So, losing the last tick because you clipped by 0.01s is treated like the freak accident it is.

You can simplify the dot potency equation down a lot to


Modeled Dot potency = [Dot Tick potency] * [active length of DoT] / 3

[SunnyHirose]

A misnomer, perhaps. The actual equation I use directly subtracts the timestamps between activations. This means that it has to clip the DoT at its full length!

As my creepy shop teacher from high school once said, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and all of 'em are cruel.

[Arthuro-Ray]

Is the Crafted Set superior compared to the Non-Crafted BiS Set with the 410 Determination?

Yeah, i would like to know how much better it is in comparison, if it's only 2 str point better in stat weight, i won't even bother.

[Thendiel]

Hey, everyone. I wanted to chime in on the BiS listings a little bit here. First of all, I don't think that Dervy's non-crafted BiS listings are accurate, since this set that I've listed in my guide, How to Train Your Dragoon, seems to yield superior secondary stats. Secondly, while you would certainly be in amazing shape for Final Coil with his crafted 535-accuracy sets, I think it would be a mistake not to emphasize accuracy in any discussion of BiS. For example, this non-crafted set for 491-accuracy encounters is superior to his crafted 535-accuracy sets in terms of stat weights (see below); additionally, I may have to run more than 535 accuracy for some fights: e.g., I favor 548 accuracy in T12 because of the way my group deals with the bennu phase.

These are my non-crafted BiS listings for different levels of accuracy. I didn't really do anything special to produce them; I just used Ariyala's BiS solver with current stat weights at different levels of minimum accuracy.

In any case, here are a few weightings that I cooked up to flesh out the issue. What I did was ignored Weapon Damage (since the Dreadwyrm Spear is obviously BiS as of this moment--though perhaps not in a few hours) and focused exclusively on the strength and secondary stats gained from gear (since everyone starts with the same base values anyhow, ignoring racial differences). I also multiplied strength values by 1.03 to reflect the party strength buff. Here are the gains I came up with:

My 535 accuracy build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OEMD
+388 str = 399.64
+217 crit = 50.561
+157 det = 51.339
+29 SS = 5.742
GAIN: 507.342 str value

Dervy’s non-crafted 535 accuracy build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNT
+388 str = 399.64
+180 crit = 41.49
+175 det = 57.225
+37 SS = 7.326
GAIN: 505.681 str value

Dervy’s non-crafted “recommended” 535-accuracy build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNX
+388 str = 399.64
+160 crit = 37.28
+209 det = 68.343
+0 SS = 0
GAIN: 505.263 str value

Dervy’s “absolute best” 535 accuracy build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P9DR
+347 str = 357.41
+270 crit = 62.91
+209 det = 68.343
+132 SS = 26.136
GAIN: 514.799 str value

Dervy’s “well balanced” 535 accuracy build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAAG
+364 str = 374.92
+243 crit = 56.619
+207 det = 67.689
+70 SS = 13.86
GAIN: 513.088 str value

Dervy’s “best cost” 535 accuracy build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PAF8
+371 str = 382.13
+224 crit = 52.192
+203 det = 66.381
+54 SS = 10.692
GAIN: 511.395 str value

My 491 accuracy build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P8IV
+388 str = 399.64
+231 crit = 53.823
+152 det = 49.704
+62 SS = 12.276
GAIN: 515.433 str value

TL;DR: Dervy's crafted BiS sets will gain you about +4 to +8 strength when compared to non-crafted BiS sets. Also, his non-crafted BiS sets might be slightly inaccurate, unless I'm just messing up my math somehow. Finally, accuracy is an important consideration in general, so keep in mind that Dervy's crafted arrangements are only "pure" BiS for T13 flank accuracy, specifically.

[Decrith]

Thendiel's post reminded me about a question, I've been meaning to ask (but keep forgetting).

The stat weights were measured based on your strength values at the highest gear level right? But is the STR party bonus included in that? Would the additional strength have some effect to the stat weights by even a very marginal degree?