It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

[Kinseykinz]

Since people just want the story, SE instead of nerfing the fights to oblivion ie: t7; would it not be better if they just put an npc somewhere for the CS? People would just talk to the npc and it would show them the CS from coils.

I mean I know the harder fights are not meant for everyone and that is fine but when its made so easy that you barely have to actually care about the mechanics of the fight, there is no satisfaction from actually beating the fight; this would then be just a CS grind. So would it be ok for the people that don't want to miss the story to just get an npc they can click on for the CS?

Again, I don't think the 'story' issue will be quite as big a deal with the 3.0 Expansion Alex. raid and moving on. The problem with the Binding Coil dungeon+it's story is it ties into the 1.0 storyline....which was a casual storyline. So SE basically wraps up the 1.0 storyline (a what 5 year old storyline by now?), which originally was very casual by putting it all in a top-end raid. Sure, the content is 'nerfed' over time....but the people most interested in the story have already waited literally years to see it, and aren't all natural raiders.

It also doesn't help that coil's more or less structured in a way that it only makes logical sense to static it/work with a dedicated team (at least on the most relevant turns)...as it's not even overly feasible for a FC to just assist people through. It's doable, but challenging, both from a scheduling and manpower perspective.

That all said, I honestly think that between the changes made for the upcoming Expansion (Normal and HM versions of top raids) + the storyline NOT directly connecting to casual-oriented content, and instead, being brand new and raid specific, you'll have less 'guys I just want to see the story' posts happening. Binding Coil really sort of is a special snowflake in that it contains the answers/spoilers of what happened with the main 1.0 storyline, and not only was this content far more casual in 1.0...but the way 1.0 players handled grouping/statics etc was actually very different. (people worked together more because 1. the game allowed it but 2. the worlds were so small we had to).


Add to all this: Once level cap increases/new raid and expansion are out, it is likely interest in Binding Coil will plummet. When this happens, it is highly plausible that those folk who really do just want to see the story/clear it once and move on will have a hard time finding folk to run with. Basically, it becomes the Cape Westwind of endgame. Which I think is another reason you hear 'I just want to see it'...people are worried they won't be able to pull together the manpower to do this content once it's out-dated/out-leveled and replaced with shinier content. Also, the news that Binding Coil completion is NOT an entry requirement into the Alex raid likely feeds into this. If binding coil isn't needed as a stepping stone to something else, than there will be little to no reason to do this entire raid post Expansion (the gear will be trash/glamour fodder and the content clears aren't needed for character progression=today's 'endgame' becomes tomorrow's ghost-town)

Lastly, there is a big difference between 'make a story version' and 'nerf it so all the mechanics are gone'. I think, in most cases what people are hoping for is the storymode version to be released at the same time as hardmode, and for the storymode to basically be ala 'nerfed turns 1-9' and the hardmode be the 'original strength' version. Also, they are hoping that by it NOT having gear/desired gear that maybe the lockouts won't affect this content. The lockouts, more than the difficulty are what screw with many people being able to enter/learn the content when it's 'fresh' ....and once new content has come out, it's much harder to find people willing to go back and work on the old stuff with you (nerfed or not).

And again, having the 2 versions preserves the integrity of the 'Hard' version....so instead of SE feeling like the have to nerf the hard content for everyone after a couple months, now they can let the hardmode alone....storymode should be 'easy' enough for the interested/would be the version that got nerfed if people got 'stuck' not enough people were challenging the content. Which I think is actually far more important. Right now, perfectly good, challenging content is 'forced-nerfed' just so it can be DF-able/puggable once it's 'older'....but if instead, both versions were offered from the start, more people would be challenging it (both styles) and there would likely be no need to nerf the hardmode version of the raids when new levels of that raid were released.

[Velhart]

snip

They should totally do that! Don't feel like playing the game and rather watch a movie? Well my entitled friend, no worries, because we put an NPC next to the Coils entrance so we can kill more of your motivation to go in and play content that we worked hard to make! Don't worry guys, with the feedback you continue to give us, soon enough this will be called Final Fantasy XIV: The Movie and we can drop the video game aspect of it all together!

EDIT: Also, has no one played WoW in here? I can't say if SE will 100% go by how they have it set up, but their raids have been set up as Normal/Hard for years and people who don't play very hardcore usually barely make it past normal mode until the next major patch. Since Alexander(Normal) is described as having echo buff doesn't mean at all that the fights will be easy. I am pretty sure most people, especially the ones asking for movie mode in here, will be on normal for quite a while.

[Kuwagami]

They should totally do that! Don't feel like playing the game and rather watch a movie? Well my entitled friend, no worries, because we put an NPC next to the Coils entrance so we can kill more of your motivation to go in and play content that we worked hard to make! Don't worry guys, with the feedback you continue to give us, soon enough this will be called Final Fantasy XIV: The Movie and we can drop the video game aspect of it all together!

because you're totally going to help anyone wanting to clear the content once 3.0 drops and you're busy on other stuff. right.
(Also, an other thing to add to the "many deaths of FFxiv" thread. Thanks for your contribution)

you should read the post right above yours...

Also, what's the matter if people who aren't "hardcore" per your own words barely enter hard mode before the next release ? It's not like they would have been able to clear hard mode at all if they don't succeed in or don't have time to do normal mode. So instead of being totally locked out of the next thing, they would just have lost the opportunity to have the shiny rewards of hard mode when it was a thing, and instead they would have enjoyed everything else. I'm sure they will be happy about that.

[KarstenS]

The t5 clear cutscene shows something 'shocking' but it is minor and if you've followed everything properly from the msq, you would realize that what you saw was not strange or 'puzzling' at all.

There is Spoiler now:

T5 give you 3 pieces after you beat it:

- dreadwyrm can be controlled
- you see the current state of bahamut
- this is the first and onliest scene you see Louisoix and Nael walking away together and it looks like they are working together

And not only dialogues give informations. Remember what Louisoix did say after the FMV?

The first coil shows you the way the first allegan mashine was digging till it found his heart. The central point of the first coil are the allegans and their mashines. Thats for shure the reason T3 do exist. At the end it introduces there are also persons in our time involved.

The theme of second coil are the "protectors" of bahamut. The by allegan hand created "monsters" on one side and the by bahamut controlled Louisoix and Nael on the other side.

Final Coil story is about the two primals, their summoning/summoners and the relationship between Alphinaud and Alisé.

[Velhart]

because you're totally going to help anyone wanting to clear the content once 3.0 drops and you're busy on other stuff. right.
(Also, an other thing to add to the "many deaths of FFxiv" thread. Thanks for your contribution)

I help people with old content right now. I am very sure I will be helping people beat the Coils turns even in the expansion. You know nothing of my work. Not to mention, these turns will always be in DF, so do not pretend you cannot find people for it.

Also, what's the matter if people who aren't "hardcore" per your own words barely enter hard mode before the next release ? It's not like they would have been able to clear hard mode at all if they don't succeed in or don't have time to do normal mode. So instead of being totally locked out of the next thing, they would just have lost the opportunity to have the shiny rewards of hard mode when it was a thing, and instead they would have enjoyed everything else. I'm sure they will be happy about that.

Who said there is something wrong with it? Everyone has their own play style. If you believe people should have cut scenes handed on a silver platter to them, then you are part of the extreme in the other direction.

I have not heard a good reason from you yet on why people are entitled to a movie mode for raids. The only attraction it brings are the lazy players. If you are that "I don't have time for raids" person, then I would either find a way to make it happen, wait till you can out-gear the content, or have YouTube ready, because you if you are not taking the time to accomplish the content like everyone else, then you do not deserve to see the cutscenes.

[MeiUshu]

@Velhart, the thing is not whether people want it handed to them, some of the players will never make it to do FcoB not because they dont want to, but because the player base is so full of itself that they dont allow people to enjoy the content as it should unless is at their own conditions, or better said, be a pro or dont come type of mentality. That is why players that are not hardcore just want a chance to finish ONCE a given thing just to watch the cutscene, a true lazy person will just watch it on the youtube or...pay to see it in-game eh?

People like you are the reason why people like me and others would like to have a story mode FcoB, in truth, I am not too sure what is the problem with having such a mode ? people like you can always do it normal...people like me would use the story mode...or it is just a matter of jealousy, where you didnt get that mode so others shouldnt get it either ? are you ?

Mei

[Kuwagami]

I help people with old content right now. I am very sure I will be helping people beat the Coils turns even in the expansion. You know nothing of my work. Not to mention, these turns will always be in DF, so do not pretend you cannot find people for it.

You're one in a few then. Don't get me wrong. There are very few (if any) people who like to bang their head again for hours to teach new players. I did that a long time ago. I probably won't do it again, because I can't spend my spare time doing only that. I currently prefer to log off and enjoy RL things than banging my head on T5 to teach (not that I don't like T5, or doing it again, but if after a few tries there is no sign of at least improvement or even understanding, like people staying in dives, not even attempting to move, I prefer to note down valuable players and teach them afterwards if they don't get a clear in between).

As for DF, no. People will forget it as soon as new raid comes out. Right now, getting a DF party for T2 is hard, T8 very hard T3 (if you want the achievement) impossible. FCoB won't be exempted. Within one or 2 month, all coil will be a dead zone unless SE adds some sort of bonus in it. In that case, people will farm the easiest turns, and the others will be dead.

[QUOTZ]Who said there is something wrong with it? Everyone has their own play style. If you believe people should have cut scenes handed on a silver platter to them, then you are part of the extreme in the other direction.

I have not heard a good reason from you yet on why people are entitled to a movie mode for raids. The only attraction it brings are the lazy players. If you are that "I don't have time for raids" person, then I would either find a way to make it happen, wait till you can out-gear the content, or have YouTube ready, because you if you are not taking the time to accomplish the content like everyone else, then you do not deserve to see the cutscenes.[/QUOTE]

What I said (personally) was akin to current nerfed coil, while letting regular coil un-nerfed. Of course T5 and T9 would have to be revised a bit to make them accessible for everyone (T5 now is harder than T7.. that's a bit ridiculous). But I never talked about movie mode "push a button and get it".


I'll clarify my previous post a bit :

First part was about your doom call upon FFxiv because "gaaah people have access to CSs they won't play at all"
The first sentence was related to my reference to Kinseykinz's post, about Coil becoming ghost town when 3.0 lands.

The second part (which you quoted separately), was about your edit. If people can have a raid that matches their path of tackling it, that's better than having a wall to bang one's head on. You're complaining about something that is, fundamentally, good for the players. Those who want to raid have a more difficult thing to do than 24-men raids (which are very casual, and that's not that bad if we ignore trolls). Those who want to face challenge and/or improve their skills have a difficult version of said raid to go further. Those who do not go into hard mode would probably never have gone into a "one difficulty only" raid.

Everyone wins from it.
That said, I didn't play WoW (crappy graphics to me. Can't please everyone). Maybe I'm being naive. But I don't think there are drawbacks to that.


Again, I'd like to deeply apologize for my previous confuse and confusing post.

[Velhart]

snip

That sounds like a player specific issue and not a dev issue at all. If you don't want to play with those type of people, then find ones who do. Do not pretend they do not exist, you just don't feel like finding them. The problem with the mode is it destroys half the purpose of going in the raid to begin with. People like you put such a devalue on cutscenes, when they are a massive reward in themselves. Sorry for believing that you need to work to earn things in life, even in a video game, especially an MMO.

snip

Let me ask you a simple question. Why would the developers make a story mode to the game when they want you to play the content? SE is not going to make content, and give reasons for you to not do it. They went out of their way to make raiding accessible to casuals and hardcore and still continue to find ways to influence people to go in there. Why in the world would they create a feature that influences you more to not do it? It is bad game design. They even ease the Coils with nerfs and echo buff to at least influence you to try it later if the content in it's prime is too much for you.

[Kuwagami]

Let me ask you a simple question. Why would the developers make a story mode to the game when they want you to play the content? SE is not going to make content, and give reasons for you to not do it. They went out of their way to make raiding accessible to casuals and hardcore and still continue to find ways to influence people to go in there. Why in the world would they create a feature that influences you more to not do it? It is bad game design. They even ease the Coils with nerfs and echo buff to at least influence you to try it later if the content in it's prime is too much for you.

Please stop ignoring what I'm saying and you'll have your answer :/

They even ease the Coils with nerfs and echo buff to at least influence you to try it later if the content in it's prime is too much for you.

These are your words.

Mine are to put these nerfs (with additional for T5 and T9 instant kill mechanics, no need for a lot, meteors and twisters would be a start, maybe elementals stacking to, upped to 2 max instead of one now) in a new mode called "story mode", while what was previously prime content remains untouched.


To put it simply :
=> 2.0 : T1-5
=> 2.2 : T6-9. T1-5 get added to DF, untouched, along with a new "story mode" having the nerfs + echo. Story mode doesn't grant access to T6 (need to beat regular T5)
=> 2.4 : T10-13. T6-9 get added to DF, untouched, along with "story mode" , yet again not grating access to T10. You can get access to T6 story by beating T5 story
=> 3.0 : T10-13 get added to DF, you get what I mean.

This is different from what we have now in only a few things :
=> story mode has no loot, while current nef + echo has
=> story does not unlock next tier of relevant content
=> regular coil remains untouched for those who want the challenge + access to latest raid available
=> (major drawback here) it needs more instances to be made compared to what we have now. That means more coding, even though the rest of the work (nerf + tests + balancing) remains the same.

[Velhart]

Please stop ignoring what I'm saying and you'll have your answer :/

Not ignoring you, your ideas are just terrible.