It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

[TheRogueX]

It's not about not wanting to share anything, I would love to see more of the playerbase being able to clear hard content as it would validate more resources being allocated to creating that type of content. So it would be a win-win for everyone.

What I am at the point is that there are too many who think that they should take away the only content that is targetted at players who enjoy a challenge. Whereas they could improve and tackle the content as well. No, they are too lazy and would prefer to be carried by those who can as too many do not want to put in that effort to improve their skill with the game to be able to tackle said content. It's the attitude of "We can't do it so no one else should have it" mentality that irks.

Everyone can access content, the only ones stopping them are themselves and their desire to access and take on said content. Initiative and desire is a great motivator to obtain things. You want something bad enough you will push to obtain it (outside of redicoulous wants:P).

With the two versions of 8 peep raids coming in Heavensward, I can safely say there will be same kind of complaints from some who call normal mode "too hard".

You're right, it's not that you don't want to share, it's that you just completely don't understand. Admittedly, that's better, but it is still ignorance.

Giving casual players a way to experience the story in these raids long after the raids are no longer relevant does not take away anything from the "players who enjoy a challenge." They will always have high-end, very difficult stuff to do. A lot of the people you're accusing of being 'too lazy' or 'do not want to put in that effort to improve their skill' are actually unable to do so because of time constraints. You claiming that they're just lazy and unmotivated is flat-out idiotic, elitist, judgemental ignorance. You don't know these people or their reasoning. You're just making something up so that you can feel good about yourself. This is the exact same attitude that a lot of well-to-do, wealthy people have: "Oh, everyone has the same opportunity! No one has any advantages over anyone else; it's all fair!"

It's either absolute ignorant naivety, or sinister manipulation to convince people they're wrong about it.

End game is ment to be challenging not easy.
Remember every one MMO is a very fragile entity too much story not enough of a challenge or one or the other it falls and dies.

Coil and Second Coil aren't end game anymore. And with 3.0 they definitely won't be. They don't need to be challenging anymore, especially since they contain important story info and closures.

if people want to check the story of coil but don't have the skill to do it they have 2 options.

1)Practice.
2)Youtube will probably have the cutscenes.

Pretty sure there will be normal and hard mode raid in expansion so everybody wins.
Remember, easy mode exist already... it is called ECHO.

You are ignorant, just like others who make your same claims. And shut up with the youtube suggestion; it's stupid. People want to actually be involved in the events.. because, you know... there's actual story in it.

[Teuciont]

Giving casual players a way to experience the story in these raids long after the raids are no longer relevant does not take away anything from the "players who enjoy a challenge."

If that's really how you feel, then why can't you just wait until 3.0 when you can outgear it more than you already can?

[Almalexia]

You don't know these people or their reasoning.

Trending reasons are:

a) I paid for the game, so I am entitled to the story
b) Real-life obligations make it difficult for me to clear the content, but I still want to enjoy the story
c) The content is dated and the rewards irrelevant, but the current ilvl discrepancy, Echo bonuses, and DF additions are insufficient to facilitate clearing the content

I strongly dispute c), but it's a subjective case. I'll address a) and b) with an analogy:

Let's say you and some schoolmates have an informal book club. You pick up a book: something relatively dense, but popular - like House of Leaves. You are all set to meet at the end of the month to discuss it, but you can't finish the thing. It's not that you're too dumb to figure it out; it's just that you don't have enough time to appreciate it. You have a full load of school credits, day-to-day duties at home, BF/GF, part-time work; you don't commute, so you can't read it on the bus. You only have maybe 1-2 hours a night (and not even every night) to read.

The end of the month finally arrives and you are behind on your reading. Your mates are excited to talk about it, but you confess you haven't finished. "Why not?" You were busy. "Fair enough; I guess you can go then." Well, now hold on. You paid for the book and you tried your best. You should be able to participate in the discussion. "Not worth it if you haven't finished it. It's not an easy book, but it's far more satisfying to uncover things yourself than have it spelled out for you." That's not fair. You wanted this story, you paid for this story; it's not okay for it to be walled behind pages and pages of meaningless annotations.

Someone in your circle suggests maybe House of Leaves isn't for you and maybe some lighter reading would align better with your lifestyle. You wanted this one because all your mates were going to read it and you heard it was good, and the only reason you can't get into it is because of real-life obligations. Your mates understand, but the book is what it is. If you simply can't afford to put in the effort, there's no point discussing it.

Later that night, you find yourself on the House of Leaves fan forums making a new thread: "It's about time to add a HoL story mode, isn't it?" In the thread, you point out the book has been out for over a decade and all the dedicated readers have long since finished it and reaped the intellectual rewards. Danielewski has released other books since then, too. At this point, shouldn't other people be able to enjoy the story more easily? Shouldn't Danielewski dial back the complexity far enough for readers to breeze through it?

A respondent to your thread suggests reading Cliffnotes for the book, to which you reply:

And shut up with the cliffnotes suggestion; it's stupid. People want to actually be involved in the material.. because, you know... there's actual story in it.

I hope we've reached the tipping point into the absurd.

[Magis]

Trending reasons are:
a) I paid for the game, so I am entitled to the story
b) Real-life obligations make it difficult for me to clear the content, but I still want to enjoy the story
c) The content is dated and the rewards irrelevant, but the current ilvl discrepancy, Echo bonuses, and DF additions are insufficient to facilitate clearing the content

Yeah, those seem to be the common reasons, I'd just like to answer to those specific points:

A) No one is entitled to shit. You are entitled to a chance at all the content, but not the reward from it. There is no block outside the game itself for players other than themselves. This is the case with ANY GAME IN EXISTENCE. You can't get to level 20 until you beat level 1, you can't get the end cutscene until you beat the final boss, you can't get the higher score without getting the lower one. All games give you a chance at content, but it's up to the player to beat the game to get to all of it.

B) Time scheduling, otherwise an MMO is just not going to work with your IRL lifestyle (at least raiding). They are time consumers by design. It would be like buying Counter-Strike and complaining that you need quick reflexes to not die a lot. Just because you can't find time, doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat. Many people have "a life", jobs, family, school, and can find time for coil. If you have TWO JOBS well sorry, but that's something you'll have to figure out.

C) Story and unlocking the next coil is just as much a reward as gear itself.

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Good analogy.

[Kuwagami]

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a) has always been BS and will always be.
b) is why people can't make it in time, not why they can't make it at all (so that would be a nerf while relevant, which is stupid, thus exit)

c) was what was important when I created this thread.

To continue your book analogy, take the LotR for example. There are the original books, and then there were a lot of eased, dubbed down versions to allow anyone to actually read that monstruosity if they can't understand what Tolkien said.

Original Coil, eased Coil. Same story, different thing.

[stoxastic]

To continue your book analogy, take the LotR for example. There are the original books, and then there were a lot of eased, dubbed down versions to allow anyone to actually read that monstruosity if they can't understand what Tolkien said.

Original Coil, eased Coil. Same story, different thing.

But it IS eased. People are 30+ ilvls overgeared for T5, and have 20% echo. Is that still not good enough? Do we have to ease T5 into a 3 minute tank N spank to appease everyone?

[Evangela]

But it IS eased. People are 30+ ilvls overgeared for T5, and have 20% echo. Is that still not good enough? Do we have to ease T5 into a 3 minute tank N spank to appease everyone?

Isn't this thread asking to have two separated modes for it?

[Kuwagami]

But it IS eased. People are 30+ ilvls overgeared for T5, and have 20% echo. Is that still not good enough? Do we have to ease T5 into a 3 minute tank N spank to appease everyone?

not the point. Or is everyone afraid to admit that overgearing + echo + whatever won't help for instant kills like twister, elementals, meteors, etc...

would that really matter now (12 month after the original nerf) if twister was downed to the wind head's snort in WoD ? Hard hitting stuff.

Would it really matters if meteor stacking doesn't kill anymore, or if elemental stacking up to 2 doesn't kill anymore, when 3.0 lands ?
I don't think so.

Considering T10 and T11, there is no real need for nerfs anyway. Only really bothersome instant kill I've seen so far is the electric field in T10 (the one the boss and the sons leave during the charge). If you take any damage while you're in that zone, you're dead. That's the only thing that would be removed to nerf it imo. T11, maybe reduce the effect of not being super close to your linked partner I guess. Other than that, there is nothing echo cant bring you through.

On these considerations, you could say that FCoB is best designed for an eased "story" version with echo. There are so far no real party-wide instant kill moves. Instead, you have mechanics that will kill you if you fail too often BUT are survivable if you overgear it enough

Because if the content is there, everyone has access to it, they only have themselves to blame if they can't do it.

they would if this was a solo game. Flash news, it's not

What is stopping them from getting a Party? Or queueing up DF?

you're playing ignorant here.

Try T9 in DF. If you get past meteors you'll be lucky. really. T5, people seem to get past conflags now more reliably but still fail hard on dives or twisters (oh god twisters, time to drop mouse/controller).

PF is the same but you know who to avoid in future tries. Sadly, after lots of tries, not enough people remain most of the time.

[SynMaris]

Snip

What is stopping them from getting a Party? Or queueing up DF?