New tanking abilities in the expansion thread!

[Brannigan]

Assuming around 4 new abilities and a new trait, I'd like to see a few things for paladin

-a WS that combos off of Shield Swipe that helps us do damage while tanking (grants a buff, has high potency by itself, or temporarily removes Shield Oath penalty, whatever)
-a WS that combos off of Savage Blade and changes its effects based on which oath you're in
-a useful spell that consumes a lot of MP (healing, damage, or otherwise)
-an on-demand shield block that consumes MP
-a trait that supports an actual rotation for us (adding a buff/debuff to a WS, increasing our skillspeed, or whatever)

Basically I hope the dev team actually makes paladin use its MP, because right now it's just the Stoneskin and Flash meter. Changing oaths (for the added effect on the WS after Savage), casting heals, and forcing shield blocks to consume MP and then refilling it with lots of Riot Blades could be the paladin equivalent of wrath. Shield Swipe also needs to be a lot better than it is right now. I use it, but it's only barely worth the effort of pressing.

I expect that both Warriors and Dark Knights will get an equivalent to Hallowed Ground and also that both Paladins and Dark Knights will get an equivalent to Inner Beast in the form of low-recast mitigation. Really, I can't think of anything else Warrior actually needs to be a complete class, so they'll probably get another Wrath consuming ability and maybe a party buff or something.

One thing I really hope they don't add is an AOE attack for paladin. Paladin really needs more stuff it can use while tanking bosses and in every fight, and AOE attacks are a little more situational than that.

[TouchandFeel]

@Brannigan

I agree that Shield Swipe is pretty meh and could be made more useful and interesting.

So to combine and riff off two of your ideas, how about if shield swipe was made so that it negated the reduced damage output part of ShO for a very short time (3-5 seconds?), which would give you just enough time to "combo" another attack like Spirits or Circle off of it to do more damage. That would make it much more useful and would make it a regular part of a PLD MT's rotation.

[Brannigan]

@Brannigan

I agree that Shield Swipe is pretty meh and could be made more useful and interesting.

So to combine and riff off two of your ideas, how about if shield swipe was made so that it negated the reduced damage output part of ShO for a very short time (3-5 seconds?), which would give you just enough time to "combo" another attack like Spirits or Circle off of it to do more damage. That would make it much more useful and would make it a regular part of a PLD MT's rotation.

Honestly, I've thought about that in the past and I would absolutely love it if they did that. That alone would probably keep me from switching to Dark Knight. If they slightly nerfed bucklers mitigation-wise and buffed tower shields it could make for some interesting gear choices too.

[Ceodore]

That's the thing, PLD hasn't gotten what it's been asking for. And frankly the main reason we ask for a 3rd hit skill for Riot Blade is because Warriors 9 times out of 10 ignore their debuffing skills and just spam Butcher's Block over and over. Really, to me, asking for more skills for Warriors is like being the kid who got enough presents on Christmas to obscure the tree, but isn't happy with the gifts. Not only do Warriors have several defensive CDs, more versatile CDs, and CDs with lower down times, but also several skills for buffing their damage and debuffing their enemies.It's like playing with spoiled brats sometimes. If anyone thinks that having a skill that is equivalent to Hallowed Ground is going to "fix" their tanking class, then they really need to go back to tanking school. There is a reason we call it our "oh shit" skill. Because the only time we use it is when the shit hits the fan.

It just astounds me that more Warriors can't realize that as OT, they can shine, beautifully, and make the entire raid shine. But the reason PLDs ask for a skill at the end of Riot Blade is so that we can actually appreciate the OT role, since Warriors obviously don't. That is also kind of why we ask that Raise be more like Resurrection, and Cover absorb all damage from a target, so that when we are OT, we aren't just machines with swords. Warriors have been given all the skills a good OT needs and plenty of skills to MT as well. Paladin though has nothing though to assume the role of OT in anywhere near the same capacity. We pretty much just toggle in to sword oath and spam the same three skills until a big aoe comes along and we waste 1 cooldown to negate some of the damage from a single hit and then wait another 30 seconds for the next.

I expect that both Warriors and Dark Knights will get an equivalent to Hallowed Ground and also that both Paladins and Dark Knights will get an equivalent to Inner Beast in the form of low-recast mitigation. Really, I can't think of anything else Warrior actually needs to be a complete class, so they'll probably get another Wrath consuming ability and maybe a party buff or something.

I doubt something like Hallowed Ground will be shared. I highly doubt it. For one, it's not a necessary skills to any tank, but it's a defining attribute of the Paladin. As I stated, if a tank NEEDs a skill like Hallowed Ground to do their job, then they aren't doing it right. I rarely have to pop the skill myself. It's usually used to make up for the mistakes of others too, or as cushion for a big pull so that the party can get into position without having to worry about throwing healing really soon. Dark Knights MIGHT get something like Inner Beast, but I highly doubt Paladin will. We already have a low CD mitigation skill with Rampart, and proper CD usage on a PLD should be second nature to any good paladin. Something to "fill in the gaps" between cooldowns is just overkill at this point. We already pass tanking requirements with flying colors as it is, anymore, and I feel it will just get stupid.

[TouchandFeel]

@ Ceodore

I agree that Cover should be all damage, not just physical damage. I absolutely love the Cover ability and the more that it can help me help the party, the better

Speaking of Cover and playing OT as PLD, Cover is great for that. During high damage parts of boss battles or huge trash pulls, I like to use Cover on the MT to help out the healer and then pop FoF and Bloodbath plus maybe a potion to heal myself, that way I am like a temporary extra damage shield for the MT.

[Ceodore]

Yes, it needs to be ALL damage. It's rather annoying when I want to try to save my healers during a big damage AOE which happens to be magic damage, so that they can throw out LB3 and save the party, but not be able to do it. As I said, as a Paladin, I WANT to be able to perform the role of OT, but in that unique way only a Paladin can perform. Warriors already debuff, and damage, and buff themselves (or should anyways) when they OT, so just a highly diluted form of that plus unique capabilities of our own when OTing isn't so much to ask for.

[Giantbane]

It would be cool if warrior had a way to build wrath in aoe situations (outside of infuriate) instead of just single target combos. For instance an AoE finisher to follow skull sunder. As WAR's mitigation (inner beast) is tied to the ability to build wrath, it puts the warrior a little behind the PLD in terms of mitigation in AoE situations as the WAR will have reduced access to Inner Beast while the PLD's mitigation is unaffected during AoE.

WAR needs holmgang functionality to be split up. Remove the "unkillable" property of holmgang and give the WAR a separate ability that better competes with PLD's "hallowed ground". It doesn't need to be a full invulnerability like the PLD, but hopefully the WAR version would lasts longer than 6s and does not require an enemy within 6y to be targeted.

[VargasVermillion]

As I said, as a Paladin, I WANT to be able to perform the role of OT, but in that unique way only a Paladin can perform. Warriors already debuff, and damage, and buff themselves (or should anyways) when they OT, so just a highly diluted form of that plus unique capabilities of our own when OTing isn't so much to ask for.

Paladins do a hefty amount of damage as OT, the issue with it is that we only have one combo suited for damage that can potentially rip hate, mainly if there's a gear difference. Also in fights where you need to switch stances it's a little awkward with the oaths using up a GCD and requires a little more care in that scenario. But then again I suppose that makes up for everything else being really simple to execute.

As for what could be added. More party based utility imo, more magic based abilities, as to what benefit? I can't really say.

[Blueskyy]

Lol "Other class is good enough, they don't need anymore buffs while the class i play need this this this and this." That was what I expected from people once I see these kind of posts. People never seem to disappoint me

[Blueskyy]

Warriors 9 times out of 10 ignore their debuffing skills and just spam Butcher's Block over and over. Really, to me, asking for more skills for Warriors is like being the kid who got enough presents on Christmas to obscure the tree, but isn't happy with the gifts. Not only do Warriors have several defensive CDs, more versatile CDs, and CDs with lower down times, but also several skills for buffing their damage and debuffing their enemies.It's like playing with spoiled brats sometimes. If anyone thinks that having a skill that is equivalent to Hallowed Ground is going to "fix" their tanking class, then they really need to go back to tanking school. There is a reason we call it our "oh shit" skill. Because the only time we use it is when the shit hits the fan.

Lol what you sound to me is "I don't do end game raids but I know what they do well enough anyways." "I know everything including my class and the other class that I don't play"

I don't even think you know how much PLD outshine WAR in terms of DPS as a ST in raids

Ps. END GAME raids i meant. Not Crystal tower
Also, any skilled enough Warriors out there use debuff consistently in raids, I don't know what kind of Wars you are playing with but obviously they aren't any good ones