Time to address long queue times for low level players

[Luvbunny]

You gotta realize, most players do level DPS only, forever and ever. This is like thousand times worse in NA servers, where majority of players abuse any new tanks or healer, forcing them to either quit the game, stop doing any dungeons or end up leveling another DPS jobs which further makes things worse. Next time you go to dungeons, make sure to say good things about your tank and healer, assuming they deserve it, and give them your recommendation.

[MeiUshu]

You gotta realize, most players do level DPS only, forever and ever. This is like thousand times worse in NA servers, where majority of players abuse any new tanks or healer, forcing them to either quit the game, stop doing any dungeons or end up leveling another DPS jobs which further makes things worse. Next time you go to dungeons, make sure to say good things about your tank and healer, assuming they deserve it, and give them your recommendation.

I totally agree with this post, even though DPS need commendation and I give it to them as they are often underestimated and not often considered to their true value, in my opinion.

Mei

[Kosmos992k]

You gotta realize, most players do level DPS only, forever and ever. This is like thousand times worse in NA servers, where majority of players abuse any new tanks or healer, forcing them to either quit the game, stop doing any dungeons or end up leveling another DPS jobs which further makes things worse. Next time you go to dungeons, make sure to say good things about your tank and healer, assuming they deserve it, and give them your recommendation.

I main Paladin, and got both WHM and SCH to 50 with zenith relics specifically so I could help others. My only DPS class at 50 is Summoner, which is practically a freebie when you level Scholar. I think you are right though, very many more people play dps exclusively vs people who play tank or healer combined. I'm probably atypical in that no amount of stupid or rude behavior in a dungeon will make me quit being a tank or healer though, it's how I enjoy playing. But, I have heard a lot of tanks and healers who feel the way you describe. My wife exclusively plays a healer, and if she did not have me as a tank and some good dps friends she'd probably never venture into a dungeon as a healer again because of the stress put on her by the attitudes of many other players (tank and dps alike).

Players who feel as my wife does are the players who stop using duty finder, start playing exclusively solo content, or become alienated from the game and leave. In a way, we get the community we deserve. The way people are in Duty Finder and other content is sometimes really offensive, if people don't speak up or push back against that behavior it can become the norm, which ultimately alienates other parts of the community and new players. That's potentially a self inflicted wound on the community and a downward spiral for the population numbers.

I think you are right about saying good things and I'll go further by saying that communication, civility, pleasantries and taking it easy would greatly enhance the game experience for many. As you say so, that is assuming that such things are deserved/reciprocated. Though even when faced with rude, stupid or abusive behavior, it costs nothing to remain civil - something everyone needs to remember.

Personally a warrior 'main', soldiery is useless to me right now because I'm on the novus stage and all my other classes are i110+. I'd like more gil but I'm in no real rush to get it and to me, the possible rng on time spent is NOT worth 7500 gil. Maybe other tanks crave those soldiery tomes but I would rather see fulfilling 'adventurer in need' be turned into a real avenue of money making. I can use the soldiery tomes to exchange for items to sell but it's too economy and demand influenced for me to make it a real 'job'. Not in the chore definition mind you, I meant it as an adventurer taking up a on a job the game provides. Like a mercenary.
**snip**
If anything I haven't gone into low level roulette as a lvl 50 tank for the rewards in months because of how unrewarding it is.

Why is the satisfaction of helping others insufficient reward? Don't get me wrong, I know that more material rewards will attract more players to given content. But even so, why is it that so few people see the value of the satisfaction gained from helping others?

[LandricFrey]

Two ways to fix this:
1) Greater rewards for players to repeat older dungeons
2) Expand the party size to either 5 or 6 members so that its 3-4 dps per 1 tank and healer.

I would much rather go with #2 for 3.0 and beyond because all #1 does is make people who are already tired of those dungeons, run them even more. Which is one of the reasons this community is one of the worst out there. People are miserable, they've done it hundreds of times, and now to progress you're making them do it more?

My message to SE: Ease up a bit on the grinding ok? I know its not nearly as bad as it was "back in the day" but making things a little quicker to obtain through newer content wont drive away your playerbase.

My message to the players: If your so miserable playing the game, trying to get RNG to go your way, take a break. I'm tired of people raging over every little thing. The other day in WoD someone raged like crazy during a boss fight, screaming at us to "just die" and the fight wasn't even over yet, and we didn't even wipe!

[Gardes]

Why is the satisfaction of helping others insufficient reward? Don't get me wrong, I know that more material rewards will attract more players to given content. But even so, why is it that so few people see the value of the satisfaction gained from helping others?

Because it's not fun. Low level roulette takes you down several pegs on your moveset list and it makes the dungeon run a boring experience that doesn't reward enough. People don't generally play online games to do chores for strangers they won't likely ever see again. Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude here, unless you go to low level roulettes multiple times a day every day with the sole purpose of helping to ease up the queues (you cant be queuing for the rewards at all), the question you're asking is a ridiculous one to ask to anyone.

[Eisenhower]

Why is the satisfaction of helping others insufficient reward? Don't get me wrong, I know that more material rewards will attract more players to given content. But even so, why is it that so few people see the value of the satisfaction gained from helping others?

Because it's boring as hell. You're playing a dungeon you've seen too many times (even more so if you've done the leveling dance on more than once class) with a limited moveset. There's no variation in the dungeons implemented so far, neither in terms of layout nor objectives nor enemy lineup, that would provide replayability or challenge. On top of that there are very few rewards available in terms of Achievements or loot (which can't be sold for much gil to vendors, are often BoP and provide poor or no materia conversion rewards).

[Ashkendor]

Why is the satisfaction of helping others insufficient reward? Don't get me wrong, I know that more material rewards will attract more players to given content. But even so, why is it that so few people see the value of the satisfaction gained from helping others?

Everyone has their reasons. My reason is because it's boring. I don't play this game to be bored. I can think of a thousand better ways to spend my time than to voluntarily go back to dungeons that I outgrew back during story quest progression. Don't get me wrong, I love teaching people things but I'd rather go into T9 with a completely fresh group and teach them the mechanics than run low level dungeons more often than I have to. I only go back to those dungeons when I'm required to either by a need for tomes, for progression (i.e. relic quests), or when FC mates/friends ask for someone to go with them. When I do end up queueing, it's as a tank or healer; that's more because I don't want to contribute to the already-atrocious DPS queues more than anything. I honestly can't think of a single person that I know that jumps into the low level roulette queue more than once a day for the tomes.

[Kosmos992k]

Because it's not fun. Low level roulette takes you down several pegs on your moveset list and it makes the dungeon run a boring experience that doesn't reward enough. People don't generally play online games to do chores for strangers they won't likely ever see again. Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude here, unless you go to low level roulettes multiple times a day every day with the sole purpose of helping to ease up the queues (you cant be queuing for the rewards at all), the question you're asking is a ridiculous one to ask to anyone.

Honestly I see the farming and grinding of speed runs as a chore, and people treat it like a job. As it happens, I do Q for multiple low level roulettes, and tick join in progress so I can help as may people as possible, when I have time to use DF/DR.

Because it's boring as hell. You're playing a dungeon you've seen too many times (even more so if you've done the leveling dance on more than once class) with a limited moveset. There's no variation in the dungeons implemented so far, neither in terms of layout nor objectives nor enemy lineup, that would provide replayability or challenge. On top of that there are very few rewards available in terms of Achievements or loot (which can't be sold for much gil to vendors, are often BoP and provide poor or no materia conversion rewards).

Well, your moveset is limited at whatever level you play, it's not like there is a huge variation in your rotations in high level content. Also, like Gardes before, you are focusing on material rewards. The satisfaction gained is not a material reward, it is a feeling I get from helping others. Not only that but there is a potential to make new friends, or prompt other players to helping the community. These are all intangible rewards, but the possibility of making new friends is something I would think most would find valuable. Perhaps I am naive to think this, but I was under the impression that was one of the fundamental aspects of playing an MMORPG? Have things changed that dramatically?

With regard to rewards, rewards validate our participation. Are people so tied up in the gear ladder that they find personal validation in what amounts to a material gain in the virtual world of Eorzea? Is there no sense of reward or validation from the intangible gains of making a friend in Eorzea and perhaps IRL also? I get that we all play for our own reasons as ashkendor says below, which is 100% fine and correct of course. I'm just surprised by how little regard the rewards of helping others receieve.

Everyone has their reasons. My reason is because it's boring. I don't play this game to be bored. I can think of a thousand better ways to spend my time than to voluntarily go back to dungeons that I outgrew back during story quest progression. Don't get me wrong, I love teaching people things but I'd rather go into T9 with a completely fresh group and teach them the mechanics than run low level dungeons more often than I have to. I only go back to those dungeons when I'm required to either by a need for tomes, for progression (i.e. relic quests), or when FC mates/friends ask for someone to go with them. When I do end up queueing, it's as a tank or healer; that's more because I don't want to contribute to the already-atrocious DPS queues more than anything. I honestly can't think of a single person that I know that jumps into the low level roulette queue more than once a day for the tomes.

Well, you don't know me, but I do Q multiple times for low level roulette, not for the tomes though, just to help. Kind of paying it forward for all those that helped me in the past.

With all of the content in this or any other MMORPG, if you run it multiple times, it's more or less the same thing over and over. Just as your skill rotations become memorized patters you can perform in your sleep. However, I thought (keyword 'thought') that the thing that makes all online games - including MMORPGs interesting is that we are playing with other people, not just the game's AI, and it's the presence of other people that adds the variety to content. Like in the low level dungeons you get players of all abilities, different classes, different gear and sometimes different play styles. Of course sometimes the other players are silent characters just grinding their tomes without a word to anyone - sometimes they might as well be NPCs or bots - sometimes they are bots. But it's the ones that are engaging and appreciative of the help, they add spice to the life in the game. It can also be challenging to help new players learn their class, or understand mechanics. Sure they are things we've seen many, many times, but that may not be the case for others. In which case we can teach and help.

Is there just no joy in that for anyone anymore?

[Gardes]

Is there just no joy in that for anyone anymore?

They find joy on their own terms. It's not like you're entirely selfless, you know? You're doing what you do to make yourself feel good, evidenced by saying you get satisfaction out of it. You're feeding your own need, regardless of what the avenue is. I'm not trying to offend here, I could argue that the issue you're lamenting is kinda...first world problems tier? Like, why not actually do something for a worthy cause in real life if you get satisfaction from being a samaritan?

[Kosmos992k]

They find joy on their own terms. It's not like you're entirely selfless, you know? You're doing what you do to make yourself feel good, evidenced by saying you get satisfaction out of it. You're feeding your own need, regardless of what the avenue is. I'm not trying to offend here, I could argue that the issue you're lamenting is kinda...first world problems tier? Like, why not actually do something for a worthy cause in real life if you get satisfaction from being a samaritan?

You can hardly argue "first world problems" in relation to playing a video game....LOL! I'm not trying to offend anyone either, I am just honestly surprised by how little regard the satisfaction of helping others gets compared to the completely ephemeral 'material' rewards in a video game.