Xeno's Warrior Opener Guide *updated 2.5

[bj0rN]

Kinda side tracking of topic, but since we mentioned a bit of BIS, may I know what's the BIS for non crafted gear of a STR WAR?

[Kiara]

But if you're on the verge of ripping off a tank, while it is the tank's fault if they are appropriately geared, you still shouldn't rip hate because you surviving and contributing DPS is more beneficial to the party than you dying and screaming "L2TANK OMFG" when the DPS check isn't met and everyone wipes. A good DPS realizes they're going to steal aggro and doesn't, a bad DPS keeps hitting the thing until said DPS gets murdered. This is universal. It's less apparent in this game since it rarely happens, especially at this point, but it's still a situation where You Not Dying > You Dying in terms of damaging the boss, which is your job.

Well said Spooky (and SirTaint).

Unless you're trying to go for some World Record / Bragging Rights on how high your DPS #'s can go, any good party works together to overcome each raid for the betterment of the group. Of course a DPS can pop Potions, blow their CDs and smack that Boss (or New Add) right when it spawns and rip hate off a Tank before they even got a chance to establish hate.

"Congrats" on wiping the party for the sake of inflating DPS numbers.

As Spooky and SirTaint are talking about, it's about that synergy with the group, not about face-rolling a DPS rotation immediately as a fight begins (or an Add spawns) with nothing else in mind. The Enmity Meter was added for a reason.

[Lavieh]

Entirely missing the point post

This argument has nothing to do about Good or bad DPS at all. It actually has to do with excellent players. A good player will not make any mistakes while an excellent player makes up others mistakes. That is what Spooky was saying, if the tank is really bad at holding hate (Which is easy in this game), then an excellent player would stop attacking or slow down to keep from pulling hate but this doesn't make them a good DPS. The definition of a good DPS is someone that deals good damage and good DPS will almost always rip hate off of a bad tank. The argument presented here is that you don't want to die so you have to lower your DPS so you don't pull threat off of the tank. But this just makes an excellent player, not an excellent DPS.

There is no excuse for not being able to hold hate in this game other than being bad. Simple as that, hate is stupidly easy and always has been. SE just makes it easier to keep with every patch.

At the end of the day if a DPS rips hate off of the tank (At least in this game) then the DPS is not the one to blame but the tank is at fault. Could the DPS have adjusted his play to not get hate? Yes. But is he in the wrong for doing his job properly? No. The ideal that DPS control hate in this game is stupid and created by bad tanks who can't hold hate.

[SirTaint]

The second a WAR lands BB hate is established for good.

The question is do you want to land it as your 6th hit or your 3rd?

The 6th is ideal but the 3rd is safer. After BB nobody is pulling hate.

[Noira]

snip

My job as dps is to stay alive so that I can keep dpsing. Hate is everyone's job not just the tank's, the word you're looking for is competent dps. The point of a raid or dungeon is to complete the content in the best of your ability no ? Then it is everyone's job to maximize the effectiveness to reach the goal. Tanks can only hold hate for so much damage until their aggro starts to falter.

The common misinformation is that hate is the primarily the tank's job is astounding. For heaven's sake Bard, Blm and Drg, even have abilities that reduce aggro generation, if that doesn't tell you that aggro control isn't just the tank's job, I don't know what will.

[Cenebi]

But this just makes an excellent player, not an excellent DPS.

You're simply arguing semantics now. When we say someone is a "good DPS", we are referring to the person playing the character. A more exact way to say it would be "good DPS player". Don't misunderstand, I don't think anyone is arguing that it's never a tank's fault for losing hate. It absolutely is. A tank that loses hate is either bad, under geared, or both. A good DPS player deals a lot of damage. A great DPS player deals enough damage to just barely not pull hate regardless of the how good the tank is.

This idea that it must be either the tank or the DPS at fault for the tank losing hate to the DPS is ridiculous. Both players are clearly at fault.

Every player in the party has the responsibility to: ensure that the tank keeps hate, kill the target as fast as possible, prevent themselves and others from dying, deal with any fight-specific mechanics that arise. Yes, certain roles focus more on one of those than others, for example the tank has much more control over keeping hate than anyone else. The DPS have more control over how fast the target dies than anyone else. That doesn't mean the DPS don't have a responsibility to avoid death if they can. Avoiding pulling hate off the tank is an extension of this.

[Lavieh]

This idea that it must be either the tank or the DPS at fault for the tank losing hate to the DPS is ridiculous. Both players are clearly at fault.
.

That simply isn't true in this game at all. As I mentioned before, that ideal holds up extremely well in other games but not this one. Enmity isn't even an issue unless you can only hit one key every few moments. Unless there is a huge gear discrepancy (Like 30-40 ilvls) then a tank losing hate on a mob is his fault and his fault alone. The only time that this doesn't apply is dropped monsters such as adds ect. I can agree with you that there are times where a DPS can't go all out. If an add drops the BLM can't pop an Fire III the moment it spawns. But examples like that are very few and select.


Quelling Strikes is given to the two "Bursty" classes in the game and should be used by them but beyond that DPS should not have to worry about hate management. DPS should not have to put their weapons away or let the tank start off the fight to get a threat lead.

I have turn Echo off in SCoB because tanks couldn't keep hate off of my Ninja and I have put my weapons up. I'm not saying that in the instances that you are with a bad tank that you should just tank the mob, you should put your weapons up or you should try to not pull aggro. What I am saying is that the DPS isn't to blame for pulling hate and that principle only exists because tanking is easy in this game.

Any other game like WoW or FFXI where Enmity was actually pretty difficult to manage early on and DPS just couldn't pop all their buffs and shoot something without pulling threat and if FFXIV was like those games then I would agree that all parties are responsible for aggro management.

[Noira]

Bard and Smn aren't bursts classes yet both have access to aggro reduction gain abilities.

[SirTaint]

Bard and Smn aren't bursts classes yet both have access to aggro reduction gain abilities.

Wat....BRD has the best burst in the game. Raging+B4B+IB+Barrage+Hawkeye+ a couple BL procs = extreme hate, BRD also has 4 OGCD abilities to save for burst.

BRD is a tanks biggest competition during a pull, a good NIN or a lucky BLM can also be a pain.

[Lavieh]

BRD is a tanks biggest competition during a pull, a good NIN or a lucky BLM can also be a pain.

Ninja has to start with DE or AE and even then there is no excuse for a Ninja snapping hate in the first few moments of the fight. You have to seriously misplay as PLD or WAR to lose hate or be extremely undergeared.

BRD is by far the only job that absolutely SHOULD pop quelling Strikes. BLM should not, even if they get lucky on their first fire any tank should be far enough into their combo that it won't make a difference. The only thing I could think of happening is if a BLM Crits a Fire III Proc and TIII Proc after his first fire but the chances of that happening are nil.

SMN is a great example of why Quelling strikes means very little. Again, enmity is extremely easy in this game and there are very few and seldom scenarios where a dps should aid in enmity control.