Xeno's Warrior Opener Guide *updated 2.5

[Hakmatic]

With the alt*

[Izsha]

It works just fine if 2 qualifications are met.

1. You have some semblance of str accs/Hybrids/str spec. If you don't have str you don't have threat.
2. Are in the same general ilvl/weapon range of your party.

if you are undergeared or a hp hero then you don't have the threat generation to 'get away' with this opener. But it works like a charm against anything but a pld opening with halone (I like the fracture comment ).

I started pulling with overpower a while back. It's just such superior initial enmity that it affords pushing limits like this opener. I don't know why it's not standard yet.

[SirTaint]

With the alt*

A good DPS will never pull hate. Any static the WAR should be able to use this opener. Epeen PUG groups are where the issue lies.

[Lavieh]

A good DPS will never pull hate. Any static the WAR should be able to use this opener. Epeen PUG groups are where the issue lies.

I don't get this. This is completely counter-intuitive.

Wouldn't a good DPS be the one that is to RIP hate?

I mean a bad DPS would have some non-optimized opener and would probably not deal enough damage.

Regardless you can easily pull this opener off in any content with any DPS. If you are so undergeared that you lose hate with this opener then chances are you would lose hate either way.

[SpookyGhost]

Wouldn't a good DPS be the one that is to RIP hate?

If you rip hate and then die, all that good DPS goes to waste.

If you rip hate and lose positionals (drg/mnk), that good DPS becomes average to low since you've lost potency on your opener.

Ripping hate off the tank usually isn't a good idea unless you won't die from what you've stolen and don't have positionals to worry about. You are, however, cutting into the healer's DPS as now they have 2 people to heal instead of just one.

This used to be a lot more apparent in 2.0 when hate wasn't as abundant as it is now and DPS had to actually watch what they were doing. Now everyone expects the tanks to do their job so they can faceroll the keyboard and score max deeps even when they severely outgear the tank.

Also Quelling Strikes. Very important.

[Hakmatic]

If he can lose hate to a range dps not using Quelling(Which he says happens) then he will lose hate to a good melee with his 115 axe is what im saying.

[SpookyGhost]

Can only potentially lose hate to Bard no Quelling with lucky procs, BLM has too much ramp up time.

I think "I can pull aggro off this, easy" without posting evidence is pretty sketch. A lot of people say the SE opener will lose hate but nobody ever proves that. I'd love to see some math, or a video, or something.

[Lavieh]

If you rip hate and then die, all that good DPS goes to waste.

If I rip hate it is the tanks fault. At least in this game. The mentality that "Good DPS control hate" works in some games but just not this one. A good DPS does... good DPS here that is it.

No idea why people stick behind that silly mentality here.

[SpookyGhost]

If I rip hate it is the tanks fault. At least in this game. The mentality that "Good DPS control hate" works in some games but just not this one. A good DPS does... good DPS here that is it.

No idea why people stick behind that silly mentality here.

This used to be a lot more apparent in 2.0 when hate wasn't as abundant as it is now and DPS had to actually watch what they were doing. Now everyone expects the tanks to do their job so they can faceroll the keyboard and score max deeps even when they severely outgear the tank.

You usually won't have to control your hate as a DPS, rarely is a tank undergeared enough where this is a thing. It used to be a thing, it's not so much anymore. But if you're on the verge of ripping off a tank, while it is the tank's fault if they are appropriately geared, you still shouldn't rip hate because you surviving and contributing DPS is more beneficial to the party than you dying and screaming "L2TANK OMFG" when the DPS check isn't met and everyone wipes. A good DPS realizes they're going to steal aggro and doesn't, a bad DPS keeps hitting the thing until said DPS gets murdered. This is universal. It's less apparent in this game since it rarely happens, especially at this point, but it's still a situation where You Not Dying > You Dying in terms of damaging the boss, which is your job.

[Izsha]

Fun facts. Converting threat generated to base potency (before maim, zerk etc buffs). These are cumulative #s with all threat up to that point. I ignored str pot item use as I don't know how much you get from popping it and didn't Calc in str boost from it.

0 sec (1st strike) OP 900 threat
2.5 sec 1320. Heavy
5.0 sec 1800. Maim
7.5 sec 2973. Eye
10 sec 349. Heavy
12.5 sec 5565. Sunder
15 sec 10887. BB

Those enmity pot #s are equivalent to your pot outside tank stance with no buffs. So 1000 is the same threat you would generate from doing 10 un-combod maim (100 pot gcd with no enmity mods). So whatever damage you do in your gear for 100 pot multiply out by the pots listed here and that's how much damage a dps would need to do to rip hate by that point in your opener.

If you make it to sunder you survive. Also note you usually have roughly 1 gcd lead on your dps cuz you pull 1st. So really your 5th gcd move 3491 pot means a dps has to do somewhere around 3k pot themselves to have a chance at pulling hate for 1 gcd before sunder hits and cements it (BB nail in the hate coffin).

I say around 3 cuz tank pot doesn't equal dps pot but it's still 3400+ tank pot and only 4 gcds to match it. That's a heavy thrust and chaos combo from drg. CT is only 1k pot including the ENTIRE 30 sec dot. B4b and ht bring that to around 1600ish. Half what's needed to rip hate and they won't use dfd and junk until after disembodied is on. Ramp up time. No dps does 3k in 4 gcds unless they are already ramped up on another target. It's impossible.

Now if you are pulling an add mid fight (bennu pop for example) where dps can be primed and ready to unleash their optimal pre primed already ramped hp silliness then yeah this wont cut it, but you can be ramped up too and use a better set of skills anyway.