Level 50 Dungeon Level Syncs

[Raist]

Immplementing a more effective ilvl sync is not a restriction on the content, it's a way to balance that content so that it still works. Frankly, with what i have seen of this group for whom older content is becomming irrelevant it would be a positive thing if they moved on. Rather like the hunts work better without the overgeared rush, older content will work better with proper balance and an absence of gear locusts.

And again.. missing the point. Level restriction IS a restriction on content--by definition it restricts you to a lower level content level than you otherwise would be without it. This can and typically does lead to a great deterrent for those that have moved on to a certain stage of the game. IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING TO SOME DEGREE AT i110.

Personally, I haven't touched anything below High roulette since the first week of 2.5...and that was only until I unlocked expert. Now I just run that once a day for the tomes and alex map, then I'm chasing lights and Alex/materia for my second weapon until I complete their current stages. Once I'm done with my relics, you may not see me an anything but Expert and CT chains--and that may only hold until I'm done with the Ironworks gear I want. I could care less about glamours, so once I'm done with older content... I'm pretty much done with it unless I desire to help someone run it. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that regard. Stepping into a fight with nerfed stats is NOT an incentive to do so, and no.... tomes are not a valid reward to sway me either.

It is not a new problem... I watched it play out to the point where there was about a 40 level gap in content participation with XI playerbase a few years ago, and the only thing that ultimately revived it was to uncap the content. It creates a REAL problem with balance when you clamp down too hard with the level cap until you either manage to create a mass influx of new players to pick up the slack and fill the void left behind when the bulk of the players move on, or you uncap it so that those older players don't mind so much assisting them (or gives them a sandbox to play in for sh!ts and giggles). We've all seen how well SE markets their FF franchise...people aren't exactly standing in line to buy the game, so there may be a problem bringing in enough new players to fill the ranks and keep older content relevant. We've already seen a steep decline in participation at the lower end of the content scale---the only reason some of it gets done in any manner of regularity is because people that want to finish the relic track or Ironworks and such HAVE to do it until they get their KI's and mat's to upgrade. Chances are, once they're done with that requirement, they will be ready to move on to the next new thing and leave the old stuff behind them until someone they know needs help.

Which brings us to Mykll's point further down about SE forcing people back into older content as needed via the relic chain. They risk pushing the players too far with that cheap and annoying gimmick to the point that they just stop doing it. Myself, I'm making two...simply because I started them and want to finish what I started. Every other job has a UAT weapon until I acquire something better as a drop or as a purchase with tomes or whatever method is made available in future content. Granted, I have some RL friends that left the game a while back, and if they come back I will queue with them to help THEM finish their lines, but that may be the extent of it unless it is something to benefit an FC member... but I don't plan on queueing them in DF just for the sake of doing it at that point. I am sure I am not alone in that regard.

It really is that simple. If they push the players too hard with this backwards mentality of forcing them into outdated capped instances to continue piecemeal advancements on their gear, but there is an easier option available that is just as good, or maybe not quite so good but good enough to complete new content (or, shudder the thought, a weapon BETTER then the potential new relic stage)---eventually they WILL stop advancing the relic quest line completely and just move on to the next new shinies made available as a drop or purchased with each new content release.

And... once again, looking back at XI. We saw the EXACT scenarios play out with that games artifact, relic, mythic, magian, and empyrean lines. They figured out there was far more easily attained gear that was good enough to use in the new content. Only the die-hard min/maxers went after the more highly specialized modifications at first, but eventually those got left behind too for the new stuff in the expansion.

All of this has happened before, and it shall all happen again if we are not careful.

[Kosmos992k]

And again.. missing the point. Level restriction IS a restriction on content--by definition it restricts you to a lower level content level than you otherwise would be without it.

No. ilvl sync does not restrict your level, nor does it in any way restrict you to lower level content. What it does is restore game balance by preventing excessive overgearing of content.

Personally, I haven't touched anything below High roulette since the first week of 2.5...and that was only until I unlocked expert. Now I just run that once a day for the tomes and alex map, then I'm chasing lights and Alex/materia for my second weapon until I complete their current stages. Once I'm done with my relics, you may not see me an anything but Expert and CT chains--and that may only hold until I'm done with the Ironworks gear I want. I could care less about glamours, so once I'm done with older content... I'm pretty much done with it unless I desire to help someone run it. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that regard.

Great. thank you for that. So, if what you say is true, why would a more effective ilvl sync have any more impact tha the disinterest of players such as yourself already has? If you and those who think like you are already avoiding such content, what does it matter to you if there is a more effective level sync?

Stepping into a fight with nerfed stats is NOT an incentive to do so, and no.... tomes are not a valid reward to sway me either.

I'm going to presume then that you never participate in any FATE below your level? As for tomes not being an incentive. I'm sure that it must be great not to need/want any more tomes, once again though, it underlines the point that the content we are discussing is not very relevant to you already, applying a more effective ilvl sync would not in any way alter your calculation of whether it's worth participating in it, and nor would it alter that for any other players like you - since you don't do that content anyway, and you don't want/need the tomes.

It is not a new problem...

Fatigue among high level veteran players at end-game? Sure, that's not a new issue, it's always going to be an issue. Here is an alternate viewpoint though. I've watched this same thing play out where veteran players burned themselves out on lower level content and became so overpowered that the low level content provided no challenge. The result was a large group of high level players bored to tears running lower level dungeons because they could ignore everything, one shot trash and melt the boss. The overpowering of content by both level and gear ultimately meant that those players got pissed off whenever any new/low level player asked to run some lower level dungeon, or they'd run it, and the new player would get pissed off because they got dragged through the dungeon without any input and were both bored and alienated from the game.

Oh, and just so you know, there were some dungeons with two or even three levels of difficulty, the low level version might (for instance) be level 30, and the high level one might be level 50. The high level players were far, far more apt to run the harder version than the lower one because there was zero challenge in the lower one. To me, that is an absolute demonstration that for the same content if the degree of difficulty is preserved to some extent, people are more likely, not less likely, to play it.

The level sync in the pre-50 dungeons is one of the best things that SE has done with the game because it preserves some degree of the original dungeon.

Which brings us to Mykll's point further down about SE forcing people back into older content as needed via the relic chain. They risk pushing the players too far with that cheap and annoying gimmick to the point that they just stop doing it.

Except that the relic weapon quest was expressly designed to be a long grind as an alternative for players who were not running coil, or extreme primals, allowing those players a path to upgrade, simply by playing over time. It was not designed to be rushed by speedrunning certain content into oblivion, that is unfortunately how many people play it. It makes me wonder though, if these players already have the raid level gear, why are they bothering with the relics? Given their gear, those are optional to them. In which case, they can hardly bitch about having to re-run content for items that are in terms of their gear are side grades. Again, the relic quest line was designed to be a long term grind. If anything, the players speed running and grinding it into oblivion are making it harder for everyone else because the acquisition rate of upgraded relics forces SE to make each stage extremely grindy to slow the players down. Thanks for that by the way.

It really is that simple. If they push the players too hard with this backwards mentality of forcing them into outdated capped instances to continue piecemeal advancements on their gear, but there is an easier option available that is just as good, or maybe not quite so good but good enough to complete new content (or, shudder the thought, a weapon BETTER then the potential new relic stage)---eventually they WILL stop advancing the relic quest line completely and just move on to the next new shinies made available as a drop or purchased with each new content release.

This actually argues against your stance. The point of the relic quest line was to be an alternative to the raid and EX mode weapons for players who were NOT (for whatever reason) running coil or EX primals. It is specifically designed as a way of allowing people who just play the regular content to have an upgrade path for their gear. The people who will move on to the other gear will move on to it anyway, the people who the relic upgrade quests were designed for will continue plugging away at the game and upgrade their stuff in due time.

All of this has happened before, and it shall all happen again if we are not careful.

Love the doom laden comment, you sound so much like a soothsayer of old. Doom and gloom aside, I believe that* you are very wrong. In my opinion*, you've missed the point that there are 3 avenues of gear acquisition in the game. What you suggest does little more than funnel everyone into one of two alternate ways of getting gear, and a large portion of the player base has already demonstrated that they do not want to go either of those paths. Kindly leave the third path alone.

* - added to make it crystal clear that I am stating my opinion that your arguments are wrong.